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Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow #5452844 06/13/20 11:48 AM
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parshisa Offline OP
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Just look at that. I've 3 D&F done just 10K ago. '16 Pilot sits right at 40K mi right now, 10k on the fluid on the right. How in the world it degrades that quickly (or at least the color does)???

IMG-4620.jpg

'17 Honda Civic 1.5T/ 6MT
'16 Honda Pilot 3.5NA/6AT
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452852 06/13/20 11:57 AM
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Mr Nice Offline
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I’ve done multiple ATF drain / refills at 30K miles and never seen it that dark.

I wouldn’t be concerned at the dark color.

Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452855 06/13/20 12:01 PM
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WagonWheel Offline
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Does it smell burnt? Also how does it look if you blot it on a white paper towel?

Without a chemical analysis …


2003 Honda Accord 2.4L 5AT - 156k miles
2006 Honda Odyssey 3.5L EX-L 132k miles (S-VCM)
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: WagonWheel] #5452859 06/13/20 12:04 PM
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parshisa Offline OP
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Smells normal, just like you’d expect with a used ATF. I’ve done UOA on a previous fill and nothing exciting was found. Although I don’t remember it looking that dark...


'17 Honda Civic 1.5T/ 6MT
'16 Honda Pilot 3.5NA/6AT
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: Mr Nice] #5452860 06/13/20 12:05 PM
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parshisa Offline OP
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Yes, I haven’t seen it that dark either. Short trips and stop and go driving pattern in south texas heat probably have something to do with it. Now, the question is should i do more D&F or still go another 10K?


'17 Honda Civic 1.5T/ 6MT
'16 Honda Pilot 3.5NA/6AT
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452869 06/13/20 12:19 PM
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Mainia Offline
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Doesn't surprise me, I am a WS and DW1 hater. My wife's Rav4 at 22,000 miles looked black and burn't that it made me sick in my garage. I had to open the garage door in the mid of winter. I run Redline D6 with a cocktail of 1.5 qt of Redline Racing and 1.5 qt Redline Racing Low Viscosity to come close to matching the viscosity of D6 to get rid of some of the slip agents I don't like. I like nice fast and firm shifts and both the Honda's I have had and one Rav4 have RED ATF after many many miles because of it, not black ATF. I do only 100% switch outs of ATF now. No dump and fills. I want CLEAN ATF.

My daughters Honda in my signature has MaxLife with 2 qts of Redline Racing and 2 qts of Redline Racing Low Viscosity added to stop a slip issue it had with both DW1 and MaxLife. That fixed the slip issue now for 45,000 miles.


2018 Lowered Hyundai Kona AWD 1.6T https://www.hyundaikonaforum.com/showcase/2018-kona-awd-1-6t-lowered.1162/
2014 Toyota Rav4 AWD
2005 Honda Civic
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452877 06/13/20 12:28 PM
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Mainia Offline
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Do a 100% change over. I no longer do dump and fills. Get a trans cooler too.


2018 Lowered Hyundai Kona AWD 1.6T https://www.hyundaikonaforum.com/showcase/2018-kona-awd-1-6t-lowered.1162/
2014 Toyota Rav4 AWD
2005 Honda Civic
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452881 06/13/20 12:34 PM
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JEL01 Offline
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I’ve found color to not be that great of an indicator with DW1 specifically as I’ve read, and seen with my own eyes, how it can act a little funny and turn dark quickly even without being used.

I’ve been using it in my Hondas since it came out with no trouble whatsoever, but I did read a few years back it has a propensity to darken very rapidly even when left in a container in the sun, yep I had to try it myself. I dumped a little bit of brand new bright red fluid into a clear cup similar to what you have and l left it out on the deck on a 85 degree sunny July day for about 8hrs and it went from bright cherry red to a darker maroon-ish purple just sitting there. It still looked better than what you’re showing, but the best way to tell if it’s trouble brewing or simply nothing to be concerned with is a UOA, YMMV of course and my “test” was far from anything scientific, but I found it a little interesting is all


Cars I maintain:
02 Mercedes CLK430
09 Honda Accord V6
13 Lexus RX350 AWD
02 Toyota Tundra 4x4
18 Lexus GX460
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452884 06/13/20 12:44 PM
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bulwnkl Offline
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How quickly we forget (or miss) the discussions of certain Zn additives turning dark in short order. DW1 uses a lot more Zn than any other ATF I know of. Think it’s that? I suspect it rather strongly, but perhaps an Oxidation Test on this and new DW1 would be instructive.


I use speech recognition frequently. Please excuse any consequent grammatical or typographical errors.
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452898 06/13/20 01:14 PM
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Jimzz Offline
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Try Maxlife or other LV Synthetic aftermarket fluid. I have found they hold up better in the heavier V6 Hondas.


yup
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452937 06/13/20 02:34 PM
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parshisa Offline OP
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That's what has been collected on the magnet. Not sure if that's ok or too much for 10K

IMG-4617.jpg

'17 Honda Civic 1.5T/ 6MT
'16 Honda Pilot 3.5NA/6AT
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452941 06/13/20 02:43 PM
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gregk24 Offline
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I do a spill and fill every year on my Accord and it always comes out red and smells sweet. Unless it smelled burnt I wouldn't be too concerned considering you just changed it 10K ago. Maybe that trans runs hotter than the 5 speed in my Accord?


2012 Honda Accord EX-L K24z3
61,xxx miles
PPPP 0w20 / Fram Ultra

2014 VW Jetta SE 1.8T ea888
54,xxx miles
Castrol Edge 0w40 / OEM filter
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452957 06/13/20 03:00 PM
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Mr Nice Offline
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That photo is normal amount of metal slime.

Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: Mainia] #5452963 06/13/20 03:08 PM
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supton Offline
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Originally Posted by Mainia
Do a 100% change over. I no longer do dump and fills. Get a trans cooler too.

I would agree--D&F makes sense when the fluid is still in good shape. When it's junk it's best to just replace as much as possible.

I am curious about the comment about zinc (?) or other additives changing color quickly--and that it doesn't matter. Or might not matter. It certainly did in the past for ATF! IMO that might actually be a GOOD feature for the ATF. Pull a cooler line and do a full flush, and you'll be able to easily tell when it's fully flushed with new fluid.

Anyhow, transmissions seem to last longer than ever, so maybe it's just a lark.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 206k
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 160k
2003 CRV, 2.4L/4AT, 161k
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 225k
Re: Honda DW1 ATF condition after 10K mi only. wow [Re: parshisa] #5452969 06/13/20 03:17 PM
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OilSwine Offline
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parisha, that does look bad. We’ve been on parallel paths with our Pilots I think. We have a 17 Pilot with 45k miles and a 17 Ridgeline with 44k miles, never had fluid that dark. And probably pretty similar conditions, we’re in the New Orleans area.

The big difference may be the transmission coolers. The RL AWD came with one and I added one to the Pilot (also AWD) as soon as we got it. They both get a 3.5 qt drain/fill with DW-1 every 10k miles. I’ll likely switch to either Maxlife or Castrol Syn ATF once past the powertrain warranty.

I am a big believer in the ATF coolers. We’ve had a few Honda with the V6 powertrain, and never had a transmission issue. The first was a 2001 Odyssey with the 4sp and never had a problem until we sold it at 210k miles. It got a transmission cooler from the start and 10k d/f (with Z-1).

Normally at steady state on the highway our ATF temps run about 160F. In heavy traffic in town it will get up around 190F. Don’t know if you’ve monitored yours, but you are likely spending time over 200F in heavy Houston? traffic without a cooler.

I’d look at adding a cooler if you don’t have one and stick with the 10k d/f with DW-1 until the warranty is up. Then I think there are very suitable cost effective alternatives to DW-1.

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