Is this even possible??

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I found a 0w20 with a higher hths than redline oil 0w20. I think I'm staying with Redline /M1 but these specs are kinda out there. Thanks.

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That line about "recommended for" is next to meaningless. So you would substitute that chart you posted for an actual specification, license or approval? HTHS is more important than anything else?

And to answer your question, no that is not possible for the SAE grade. But they are making the grade designation up to sell to an intended audience, notice that there is no "SAE" in front of 0W20 (nor is the grade displayed properly for an SAE designation).
 
I'm using MPT in my 4 wheeler, my snowblower, my mower and in a friends non catalyst pickup. I was a little worried about poisoning a catalyst so that's what I opted for. I think Red Line on many formulations uses more than 20% ester in combo with PAO so it is pretty stout. The MPT I'm sure has more ester but how much more?
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
I'm using MPT in my 4 wheeler, my snowblower, my mower and in a friends non catalyst pickup. I was a little worried about poisoning a catalyst so that's what I opted for. I think Red Line on many formulations uses more than 20% ester in combo with PAO so it is pretty stout. The MPT I'm sure has more ester but how much more?

If you substitute 20% with 3 to 5% for Redline I believe this is more accurate.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
That line about "recommended for" is next to meaningless. So you would substitute that chart you posted for an actual specification, license or approval? HTHS is more important than anything else?

And to answer your question, no that is not possible for the SAE grade. But they are making the grade designation up to sell to an intended audience, notice that there is no "SAE" in front of 0W20 (nor is the grade displayed properly for an SAE designation).



Everything published is typical viscosities of a 20 grade motor oil.

As for HTHS this has been discussed before many times. It's not totally grade dependent.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2276634&page=1
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Considering how little ester is in Redline I say I'm not surprised by the claims here.


Redline contains significant ester content. Estimates rage up to 20-40% based on oxidation parameters and FTIR. While you can't get an exact amount, you can get a good approximation by using the oxidation number and FTIR.


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Amsoil
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Originally Posted by dave1251

If you substitute 20% with 3 to 5% for Redline I believe this is more accurate.


Source for that? Doesnt seem factual.
 
In reading the charts it looks as if Amsoil may outshine the Red Line in ester content except the measurement isn't quantified between the two graphs....is that what I am seeing?
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
In reading the charts it looks as if Amsoil may outshine the Red Line in ester content except the measurement isn't quantified between the two graphs....is that what I am seeing?


No Amsoil has 10-14% (estimate of ester). The guy that does the videos in the lab has estimated them based on oxidation and FTIR. While an approximation, you can get some idea. Red Line is by far the highest.
 
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by dave1251
Considering how little ester is in Redline I say I'm not surprised by the claims here.


Redline contains significant ester content. Estimates rage up to 20-40% based on oxidation parameters and FTIR. While you can't get an exact amount, you can get a good approximation by using the oxidation number and FTIR.


[Linked Image]

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Amsoil
[Linked Image]





No the limitation of the FTIR graph is everything from ester additives to anything with a C=O Bond will be detected. Without GC anything is a guess. We could ask Dave from Redline but he flat out lied for over a decade and said Redline was 100% Diester which simply was not possible. Redline is primarily a PAO product which isn't bad.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by dave1251
Considering how little ester is in Redline I say I'm not surprised by the claims here.


Redline contains significant ester content. Estimates rage up to 20-40% based on oxidation parameters and FTIR. While you can't get an exact amount, you can get a good approximation by using the oxidation number and FTIR.


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Amsoil
[Linked Image]





No the limitation of the FTIR graph is everything from ester additives to anything with a C=O Bond will be detected. Without GC anything is a guess. We could ask Dave from Redline but he flat out lied for over a decade and said Redline was 100% Diester which simply was not possible. Redline is primarily a PAO product which isn't bad.


It is not primarily a PAO based product. Now you're the one lying. lol. The oxidation parameter gives that away. It has significant ester content. As to how much exactly no one knows. It is certainly more than any other brand I'm aware of. And it wasn't diesters they were using.
 
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5137502/found-a-premium-blue-restore-voa

"What's shown looks very good. It is interesting to know the oxidation value because the patent for this oil gives away clues as to which of the multiple recipes they made was chosen for the mass produced product. So we know how much and what type of ester was used. That allows the relationship to be estimated between ester concentration and oxidation value. I would have guessed it to be higher for this oil since it has so much ester and because Red Line's regular street oils have oxidation values of around 90, vs 110 for VPBR. That tells me that those Red Line oils have more ester than I previously would have guessed. I don't doubt that the type of ester, at a given concentration, can affect the oxidation value since the percent mass of oxygen atoms in the ester molecule varies, so an estimation of ester concentration from oxidation values will have some error. Further error is caused by oxygen-containing additives caring from one type of motor oil to another but this tends to fairly consistently result in oxidation values of around 8, as shown by motor oils containing no ester."
 
The numbers seem to correlate well.

Amsoil oxidation values - 35-40
Mobil 1 0w40 - 36
Valvoline PBR - 110
Redline - 90-120

Mobil 1 0w40 uses approximately 5-10% POE
Amsoil is estimated at 10% POE

Red Line is likely around 15-40% if I had to guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZr8GNzsxNQ
 
I put it in my calculators, and it left Amsoil Signature Series and all the other 0W-20 oils in the dust.

The base-oil quality is the highest I've ever seen, with simultaneously very low CCS and Noack values.

They didn't provide a density value in the data sheet. My HTFS calculator is indeed pointing that it's VII-free, and I get density @ 15.6 °C = 0.895 g/mL for it to be a monograde according to my calculator, which points to a very high ester content if everything is working right.
 
Ok no more speculation. I called Dave at Red Line. The answer is in the 40% range for Redline. This was from him. I told him that I know base oil formulations are proprietary information and whether he would be able to give an approximate range for the amount of esters used in their oils due to internet rumors and sketchy FTIR/Oxidation tests. He said they normally don't give that out but it is in the 40% range. From the horses mouth.

He also said the oxidation number isn't the whole story.
 
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