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Is this even possible?? #5451116 06/11/20 08:30 AM
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Marco620 Offline OP
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I found a 0w20 with a higher hths than redline oil 0w20. I think I'm staying with Redline /M1 but these specs are kinda out there. Thanks.

Screenshot_20200604-233727.png

15' Civic r18, 342,000 mi M1 0w30(3qt)/Redline 5w30(1qt),Castrol CVT Fluid,Redline Si-1
Dog Whisperer! Honda/Acura nerd; detest ethanol,wind,"green" ,solar & vegan.


Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: Marco620] #5451356 06/11/20 01:14 PM
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Brian123 Online Content
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$14.95 a Quart

Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: Marco620] #5451359 06/11/20 01:22 PM
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dave1251 Offline
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Considering how little ester is in Redline I say I'm not surprised by the claims here.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: Marco620] #5451362 06/11/20 01:28 PM
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kschachn Online Content
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That line about "recommended for" is next to meaningless. So you would substitute that chart you posted for an actual specification, license or approval? HTHS is more important than anything else?

And to answer your question, no that is not possible for the SAE grade. But they are making the grade designation up to sell to an intended audience, notice that there is no "SAE" in front of 0W20 (nor is the grade displayed properly for an SAE designation).


1994 BMW 530i, 253K
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Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: Marco620] #5451421 06/11/20 03:26 PM
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sloinker Offline
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I'm using MPT in my 4 wheeler, my snowblower, my mower and in a friends non catalyst pickup. I was a little worried about poisoning a catalyst so that's what I opted for. I think Red Line on many formulations uses more than 20% ester in combo with PAO so it is pretty stout. The MPT I'm sure has more ester but how much more?


'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Red Line 5W30 Euro
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI M1 ESP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Valvoline 5W20 Semi Synthetic
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Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: Marco620] #5451509 06/11/20 05:50 PM
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dave1251 Offline
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Originally Posted by sloinker
I'm using MPT in my 4 wheeler, my snowblower, my mower and in a friends non catalyst pickup. I was a little worried about poisoning a catalyst so that's what I opted for. I think Red Line on many formulations uses more than 20% ester in combo with PAO so it is pretty stout. The MPT I'm sure has more ester but how much more?

If you substitute 20% with 3 to 5% for Redline I believe this is more accurate.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: kschachn] #5451518 06/11/20 06:06 PM
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dave1251 Offline
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Originally Posted by kschachn
That line about "recommended for" is next to meaningless. So you would substitute that chart you posted for an actual specification, license or approval? HTHS is more important than anything else?

And to answer your question, no that is not possible for the SAE grade. But they are making the grade designation up to sell to an intended audience, notice that there is no "SAE" in front of 0W20 (nor is the grade displayed properly for an SAE designation).



Everything published is typical viscosities of a 20 grade motor oil.

As for HTHS this has been discussed before many times. It's not totally grade dependent.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2276634&page=1


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: dave1251] #5451527 06/11/20 06:18 PM
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buster Offline
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Originally Posted by dave1251
Considering how little ester is in Redline I say I'm not surprised by the claims here.


Redline contains significant ester content. Estimates rage up to 20-40% based on oxidation parameters and FTIR. While you can't get an exact amount, you can get a good approximation by using the oxidation number and FTIR.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Amsoil
[Linked Image]



2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: dave1251] #5451534 06/11/20 06:27 PM
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Rand Offline
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Originally Posted by dave1251

If you substitute 20% with 3 to 5% for Redline I believe this is more accurate.


Source for that? Doesnt seem factual.


2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk 2.0T
2020 Hyundai Elantra "Value Edition"
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: Marco620] #5451539 06/11/20 06:29 PM
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buster Offline
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Regarding MPT, they are using NO viscosity modifier so that is why the shear stability is so high.

https://mptindustries.com/product-category/thirty-k-full-synthetic-high-performance-motor-oils/


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: Marco620] #5451578 06/11/20 06:58 PM
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sloinker Offline
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In reading the charts it looks as if Amsoil may outshine the Red Line in ester content except the measurement isn't quantified between the two graphs....is that what I am seeing?


'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Red Line 5W30 Euro
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI M1 ESP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Valvoline 5W20 Semi Synthetic
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Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: sloinker] #5451583 06/11/20 07:00 PM
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buster Offline
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Originally Posted by sloinker
In reading the charts it looks as if Amsoil may outshine the Red Line in ester content except the measurement isn't quantified between the two graphs....is that what I am seeing?


No Amsoil has 10-14% (estimate of ester). The guy that does the videos in the lab has estimated them based on oxidation and FTIR. While an approximation, you can get some idea. Red Line is by far the highest.


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: buster] #5451736 06/12/20 01:57 AM
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dave1251 Offline
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Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by dave1251
Considering how little ester is in Redline I say I'm not surprised by the claims here.


Redline contains significant ester content. Estimates rage up to 20-40% based on oxidation parameters and FTIR. While you can't get an exact amount, you can get a good approximation by using the oxidation number and FTIR.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Amsoil
[Linked Image]




No the limitation of the FTIR graph is everything from ester additives to anything with a C=O Bond will be detected. Without GC anything is a guess. We could ask Dave from Redline but he flat out lied for over a decade and said Redline was 100% Diester which simply was not possible. Redline is primarily a PAO product which isn't bad.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: dave1251] #5451817 06/12/20 07:17 AM
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buster Offline
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Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by dave1251
Considering how little ester is in Redline I say I'm not surprised by the claims here.


Redline contains significant ester content. Estimates rage up to 20-40% based on oxidation parameters and FTIR. While you can't get an exact amount, you can get a good approximation by using the oxidation number and FTIR.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


Amsoil
[Linked Image]




No the limitation of the FTIR graph is everything from ester additives to anything with a C=O Bond will be detected. Without GC anything is a guess. We could ask Dave from Redline but he flat out lied for over a decade and said Redline was 100% Diester which simply was not possible. Redline is primarily a PAO product which isn't bad.


It is not primarily a PAO based product. Now you're the one lying. lol. The oxidation parameter gives that away. It has significant ester content. As to how much exactly no one knows. It is certainly more than any other brand I'm aware of. And it wasn't diesters they were using.


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Is this even possible?? [Re: Marco620] #5451818 06/12/20 07:21 AM
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buster Offline
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Here is an example of an oil that has 50% POE content. They provide the oxidation value which 110, which is in the range that shows up for Red Line. (Red Line is 92-120).

https://www.speediagnostix.com/new-oil-analysis/valvoline-premium-blue


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
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