‘19 GTI specs 0w-20 508 00

[wemay]

508.00 will hold up just as well if you believe PAO based oils do. The GTI isn't the highest hp model using 508.00 either, the Audi S4 does as well. All that being said, I've gone through the same questions in my mind since the EA888 has always used a 3.5 HTHS oil. It's hard to think a drop this far down in viscosity is reasonable. But we either trust VAG or don't on this. I haven't seen a bad 508 uoa either.

 

[wemay]

Then you have this "gem" of a paragraph in my OM...

Originally Posted by 2019 Passat 2.0T manual


https://api.ownersmanualvw.com/#/vin/1VWLA7A30KC000137/content/en-US:561012723BG:6-0-1-3

General recommendations:

If engine oil that meets the applicable Volkswagen engine oil specification with viscosity grade SAEÂ 0W-20 is not available in your area, be sure to use a viscosity grade suitable for the climate, season, and operating conditions that exist where the vehicle is used. Make sure the oil meets the engine oil specification listed in the table above.



Umm, so if you can't find an oil meeting spec find something that matches your climate...that meets spec. Lol

Because the only viscosity meeting the spec in that "table" (see below) is 0W-20


🤯🤦â€â™‚ï¸

 

[wemay]

My preference is VW502. I know, if engine warranty issues arise, I'm outta luck. But I've given it enough thought and will go that route.

 

[wemay]

Maybe not....🤦â€â™‚ï¸

That "new oil pump" you know...

 

[TheIceStormof06]

Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
You keep asking my question. Why do VW recommend 504/507 over a 502 in higher hp cars. That i cant get my head a round.


FWIW I have been running the (well regarded) 504/507 Pennzoil Platinum EURO LX 0W30 in our GOLF R (296 hp) since early November 2018 (in that time it has seen temps as low as -25C/-13F, of course excluding wind chill). I plan to drain and send off a sample to Blackstones by early May (after about 4800 to 5k miles of use). And it will be replaced by another Pennzoil product but rated "only" as a 502 ie PP 5W40 EURO. I will run this from May till November (5k miles) and again I will get a UOA of it. I will post both analyses



Have you done this? What did you find out? I'm running the 504.00 from Mobil. May try Pennzoil next. But the 0w-30 504.00 is like a thinner 0w-40. And I believe it stays in grade over OCI. I just put 10k on Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 and it was still golden brown. I was shocked!

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by 21Rouge
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
You keep asking my question. Why do VW recommend 504/507 over a 502 in higher hp cars. That i cant get my head a round.


FWIW I have been running the (well regarded) 504/507 Pennzoil Platinum EURO LX 0W30 in our GOLF R (296 hp) since early November 2018 (in that time it has seen temps as low as -25C/-13F, of course excluding wind chill). I plan to drain and send off a sample to Blackstones by early May (after about 4800 to 5k miles of use). And it will be replaced by another Pennzoil product but rated "only" as a 502 ie PP 5W40 EURO. I will run this from May till November (5k miles) and again I will get a UOA of it. I will post both analyses



Have you done this? What did you find out? I'm running the 504.00 from Mobil. May try Pennzoil next. But the 0w-30 504.00 is like a thinner 0w-40. And I believe it stays in grade over OCI. I just put 10k on Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 and it was still golden brown. I was shocked!


Did you do a search in the UOA forum?

I believe this link will take to the thread in which I posted UOAs for both the PP EURO 0W30 and the M1 ESP 0W30. Both did fine:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5247348/1

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Not my car but I thought a discussion could expand on VW's choice to run a lighter oil.

At the Mk 7 forum a new owner is reporting his new ‘19 GTI specs 508 00 oil. This is a 0w-20 oil similar to so the FE formulation from BMW and 229.71 from Daimler.

The engine is rated at a tad more power (228hp) vs previous years(220hp) but no other changes are known to the internals.

Would you run this difficult to find oil or just run the existing 502 00 spec?

If it were my car I would buy the easy to find Castrol 0w-40.

There are internal changes. Do you homework before posting

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
While the car is under warranty the answer should be obvious...

Run whatever you want because as long as the engine has oil in it and isn't sludged up no one will ask?

I'd run a 502 if it were my GTI...

Why would you run 502 if VW clearly states to use 508? Makes no sense. Oh let me guess you think the 40w will "protect" better and will have less wear omg

 

[RooflessVW]

Why would you run 502 if VW clearly states to use 508? Makes no sense. Oh let me guess you think the 40w will "protect" better and will have less wear omg

You can be sure than an oil with a higher HTHS will protect better.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

You can be sure than an oil with a higher HTHS will protect better.

Says who? If that was the case then all car manufacturers would be recommending high HTHS oils. Yet these engines that run 16w or 20w lower HTHS still run hundreds of thousands of miles. Then the whole "it's for fuel economy not longevity of your car" argument is total BS. This is the modern age using modern engineers running "lighter" oils because manufacturing is just better than it used to be.
If you follow the manufacturer recommened spec oil that is required and your running a stock car and not "tuned" or modified there is absolutely no reason to stray from the recommendation.
If your car is heavily modified then go off the advice of the person who did your modifications because you're out of warranty and you're putting that risk with those modifications on your shoulders anyway so you have nothing to lose.
I think most people here will agree with me.

 

[shortyb]

It's amazing what pressure from meeting CAFE can do to things like HTHS standards. Lower is fine now since it allows for a thinner, more fuel efficient oil, however, do we really know the effects over time with regard to using this vs a higher HTHS? Yes, things have gotten "better", but physics is physics. I'll err on the side of more protection by using higher HTHS oils, sacrifice the reduction in fuel economy, and even change it at 5K vs 10K in my small, high strung, turbo engine. Just don't tell VW .

 

[RooflessVW]

It's amazing what pressure from meeting CAFE can do to things like HTHS standards. Lower is fine now since it allows for a thinner, more fuel efficient oil, however, do we really know the effects over time with regard to using this vs a higher HTHS? Yes, things have gotten "better", but physics is physics. I'll err on the side of more protection by using higher HTHS oils, sacrifice the reduction in fuel economy, and even change it at 5K vs 10K in my small, high strung, turbo engine. Just don't tell VW .

Lower has been fine for many many years. IIRC Mobil 1 was a 5W-20 in the 1970's and cars did just fine on it. Billions of miles driven on 20 grade oils over 5 decades and lubrication related failures are not common.

Where are all the dead engines? I say we have a pretty firm grasp on the "effects over time."

Says who? If that was the case then all car manufacturers would be recommending high HTHS oils. Yet these engines that run 16w or 20w lower HTHS still run hundreds of thousands of miles. Then the whole "it's for fuel economy not longevity of your car" argument is total BS. This is the modern age using modern engineers running "lighter" oils because manufacturing is just better than it used to be.
If you follow the manufacturer recommened spec oil that is required and your running a stock car and not "tuned" or modified there is absolutely no reason to stray from the recommendation.
If your car is heavily modified then go off the advice of the person who did your modifications because you're out of warranty and you're putting that risk with those modifications on your shoulders anyway so you have nothing to lose.
I think most people here will agree with me.

I mostly agree with you. Most engines are fine on thinner oils.

But then you agree with me, and say run a thicker oil in a high performance engine. Why? Because thicker oils protect better. Film strength is higher with thicker oils, period.

 

[shortyb]

Lower has been fine for many many years. IIRC Mobil 1 was a 5W-20 in the 1970's and cars did just fine on it. Billions of miles driven on 20 grade oils over 5 decades and lubrication related failures are not common.

Where are all the dead engines? I say we have a pretty firm grasp on the "effects over time."

Maybe I should have been more specific. I'm relating my statement to the recent VW switch to 508.00 oils ~2019 with engines that in their lower ends, and valvetrain components (save for VVTL pieces) are the same as those speced for 502.00. Don't think the mileage seen by those MY cars is enough yet to quantitatively measure wear or engine related failures. But then again, maybe it's all fine for 99.9% of the consumers because they don't drive hard anyway. Or maybe I'm just too skeptical for my own good, but kinda makes you question the move until you dig into VW's response to the lower fuel consumption push. Lots more start/stop vehicles in NAR around that time. Hmmm.

Oh, and have been hearing LOTS of ads for doing laundry in cold water to conserve energy too. I smell a conspiracy .

 

[Kjmack]

I'd run a 504 before a 502

 

[930.engineering]

.
I'm uncertain if I should correct some false claims made on this thread
as they're more than old enough (2019) to just generously ignore them,
but it's too hard to resist....
Regarding EA888 3G engines, Volkswagen and Audi startet using and
speccing VW 508 00/0W-20 oils in 2015/2016 with their (at that time)
new released 'Miller Cycle' 190 HP 2.0 TFSI (first available on European
markets on the A4).**
For some time this engine remained the only one specced for 508 00
and Audi allowed for alternatively using VW 504 00 (not certain about
VW 502 00). There have been some measures to make the engine ready
for 0W-20 use. While true that this includes the oil pump it's false that
Audi did invent a dual-stage oil pump at that time. In fact ALL EA888 3G
do come with a dual-stage one from 2012 on. Actually Audi revised the
oil pump's drive. It's running barely 20 % quicker, that's all about it.
Remember this lower-powered 2,0T is based on the 1.8 TFSI (EA888 3G)
with its smaller diameter main bearings and weaker crankshaft (e.g. just
four instead of eight counterweights).
The very first GTI specced for VW 508 00 oil (and VW 504 00 + VW 502 00
alternatively) is the 'DLBA' engine code facelift GTI Performance available
on EU markets from late March 2017 on. Btw I do own one of the very first
samples. This engine comes with some further improvements which IMHO
are more reasoned with its raised power (245 HP) and torque (370 Nm =
273 ft lbs). The pistons are made from the same stronger alloy as those of
Golf R, TTS and S3, but retain the 9.6 compression ratio, same with cylinder
head, but it again retains the GTI exhaust cam shaft, piston jets and it also
comes with the Golf R clutch in case of the manual version (or with the new
DQ381 in its DSG version). Same IS20 turbos, just (again) another revision.
There could me more, that's what I remember at the moment, and obviously
there isn't much one could related to the introduction of thinner oil. Piston
jets maybe and oil pump drive. No coated bearings, no wider bearings, no
revised materials.
On a side note: my GTI didn't come with VW 508 00 factory filled regardless
VW specing both VW 502 00, 504 00 and 508 00 according to VW's ErWin
service literature. And I didn't ever run any 508 00 in it. VW 504 00 fits my
bills.
Since this discussion is about the Mk7 (and not about the Mk8) it's not true
that GTI Clubport and Clubsport S (which both have been available in 2016)
were specced for VW 508 00. In fact VW only permitted using VW 502 00 and
504 00 for them. If I remember correctly even the later GTI TCR (and Golf R)
available from mid 2018 on never have been specced for VW 508 00/0W-20!

As far as I know VW doesn't even spec VW 508 00 for the current Mk8 GTI
Clubsport but only for the standard GTI, however this is another question I
don't want to start with as this is another engine generation (EA888 4G).


**I'll skip the EA211evo 1.0 and 1.5 TSI engines starting in late 2016/early 2017
for the sake of clarity.
.

 

[shortyb]

930-Thanks for those facts. I believe you, and some others are on the same side of the skeptcism tracks as I am with regard to the fundamental differences in the "old" EA888 G3 and the "new" one specing 508.00. Doesn't seem to be sufficient changes done IMHO to the more critical bottom end and valvetrain components to accommodate the thinner oil. Does this mean oil related failures will magically increase to the point no one should be using 508? Absolutely not. Oil related failures can occur even with the thicker ones like 502.00 and 504.00. What I am eluding to is using something a bit thicker for the PROTECTION factor. I've done enough UOAs on my cars to know that I'm hard on the oil. Also why I change much earlier than "recommended". I know that my engines are fuel diluters and that absolutely compromises the film strength. So, I use a thicker oil (currently 504.00) to help mitigate that. In the wife's new Tiguan, I'm running M1 5W-30 ESP to help with the short trips she does and not getting up to temp in her 2 mile commute. Thats it. Not trying to prove that you MUST always use a thicker oil to prevent the engine from meltdown, just for a little extra margin of protection in my case. Obviously everyone else's MMV. I may come around. It took me a while to get over the every 3 months or 3K miles mantra too.

I'd use a condom analogy to help with the thick/thin protection controversy, but this is a family show so I won't .

 

[kschachn]

Says who? If that was the case then all car manufacturers would be recommending high HTHS oils. Yet these engines that run 16w or 20w lower HTHS still run hundreds of thousands of miles. Then the whole "it's for fuel economy not longevity of your car" argument is total BS. This is the modern age using modern engineers running "lighter" oils because manufacturing is just better than it used to be.
If you follow the manufacturer recommened spec oil that is required and your running a stock car and not "tuned" or modified there is absolutely no reason to stray from the recommendation.
If your car is heavily modified then go off the advice of the person who did your modifications because you're out of warranty and you're putting that risk with those modifications on your shoulders anyway so you have nothing to lose.
I think most people here will agree with me.

Physics matters. If you live in an alternative universe where it does not matter then you can ask "says who?"

There is another force at work which is why the manufacturers are not recommending higher HT/HS oils. Automobile manufacturers and lubricant blenders have worked very hard and have spent a great deal of money to ensure vehicles can run on low HT/HS oils. But in no way will any vehicle be harmed by an oil with a higher HT/HS oil. Better manufacturing processes is certainly not the reason for the shift to thinner oils.

The factual reason for these oils is entirely for fuel economy. If not, can you name one other benefit of thinner oils? You call this reason "total BS", what other reasons are there?

 

[kschachn]

Why would you run 502 if VW clearly states to use 508? Makes no sense. Oh let me guess you think the 40w will "protect" better and will have less wear omg

Because it will protect better. And there is no reason to use a 502 00 oil, with today's fuel a 504 00 oil is a better choice.

 

[930.engineering]

.
.... or VW 511 00 (0W-40 and 5W-40) if there's a reason using a 40.
.

 

[gregk24]

Physics matters. If you live in an alternative universe where it does not matter then you can ask "says who?"

There is another force at work which is why the manufacturers are not recommending higher HT/HS oils. Automobile manufacturers and lubricant blenders have worked very hard and have spent a great deal of money to ensure vehicles can run on low HT/HS oils. But in no way will any vehicle be harmed by an oil with a higher HT/HS oil. Better manufacturing processes is certainly not the reason for the shift to thinner oils.

The factual reason for these oils is entirely for fuel economy. If not, can you name one other benefit of thinner oils? You call this reason "total BS", what other reasons are there?

Better fuel economy is a good thing. If you can hit 300K on 0w20 and get better fuel economy doing it...why not?