Castrol Edge LL IV 0w20, not majority PAO

[wemay]

25%-50% ? Which probably means 25.
It's been mentioned on other boards that this is a primarily/majority PAO oil which is why I bring it up. Not that special when considering others. But still looks good.

And remember, this is the oil developed with VW.

 

[CT8]

What is the big whoop about PAO?

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by CT8
What is the big whoop about PAO?


I tend to agree. But some don't consider grpIII a syn, only IV and V.

 

[Danno]

Originally Posted by CT8
What is the big whoop about PAO?


Yup,
If the oil you choose meets the specs for your application, does POA content really matter?

 

[wemay]

It's in response to Gokhan advising M1EP was probably a better oil. And by the metrics of PAO, he's right...

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted by Danno
Originally Posted by CT8
What is the big whoop about PAO?


Yup,
If the oil you choose meets the specs for your application, does POA content really matter?



winner winner

 

[edyvw]

No it does not mean 25%. Means that different batches might have different % as not all batches are made in same location. Also, market, geopolitical events, natural disasters sometimes influence supply of certain products (like hurricane obliterated supply of PAO for Mobil1 in mid-2000) so I guess they are leaving bit of room.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wemay
It's in response to Gokhan advising M1EP was probably a better oil. And by the metrics of PAO, he's right...


That is absolutely ridiculous metric as Mobil1 has specific oil for VW508.00. Nothing stops Mobil1 to get VW508.00 approval for Mobil1 0W20EP if oil actually can get that approval. But idea behind approvals is precisely that one that you, consumer, do not have to think about which oil is suitable for your engine and play guessing game.
Now, in the future Mobil1 or Castrol might go with common 0W20 Extended Performance and get Euro approvals, but obviously we are not there. It would make sense, it would simplify market.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by edyvw
No it does not mean 25%. Means that different batches might have different % as not all batches are made in same location. Also, market, geopolitical events, natural disasters sometimes influence supply of certain products (like hurricane obliterated supply of PAO for Mobil1 in mid-2000) so I guess they are leaving bit of room.


Ah, thank you for that information.

 

[Hermann]

Originally Posted by CT8
What is the big whoop about PAO?

Yep, still no answer. Must be proprietary informantion.

 

[BAJA_05]

Keep beating a dead horse why dont we!!!!

 

[sloinker]

I thought VW told Casstrol to take a flying leap and abandoned them as a supplier. Something to do with being ripped off by a lower quality, mis-represented product, or something to that affect. They went with M1 now it seems.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by sloinker
I thought VW told Casstrol to take a flying leap and abandoned them as a supplier. Something to do with being ripped off by a lower quality, mis-represented product, or something to that affect. They went with M1 now it seems.

Yes you are trolling as you often do.

Yet another instance.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by sloinker
I thought VW told Casstrol to take a flying leap and abandoned them as a supplier. Something to do with being ripped off by a lower quality, mis-represented product, or something to that affect. They went with M1 now it seems.

Sloinker, can you share a link to this information?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by wemay
It's in response to Gokhan advising M1EP was probably a better oil. And by the metrics of PAO, he's right...

I don't think I said exactly that. Base-oil quality is only one of the variables in the equation, even though it is a very big variable and the most dollarwise expensive variable.

I think few Euro-OEM 0W-20 oils are fully PAO-based. 50% PAO is still a very good amount.

Euro OEM 0W-20's oils are more keen on reducing wear than their ILSAC counterparts, as they keep the ZDDP level higher. I also typically see less VII content with them, which translates to a thicker base oil, which also reduces wear in theory. This doesn't necessarily mean than a Euro-OEM oil will outperform a given ILSAC oil in protecting against wear in real-life situations or even in actual bench engine tests.

The strength of Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 is what it is marketed for—longer OCI's. This is because of the higher-quality base oil and higher antioxidant content.

Moreover, it is hard to beat the research and development efforts of companies like ExxonMobil, which use custom additive packages and go through dozens of formulations before they choose the optimal formulation. This is in contrast to a generic Euro-OEM oil blended by using a generic OEM-approved additive package from a major additive supplier.

However, use the OEM-approved oil when you're in doubt, especially when your car is under warranty.

 

[wemay]

I'm going to try Edge EP 5W-20. I've got a couple jugs from my Hyundai days and need to get rid of it.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by wemay
I'm going to try Edge EP 5W-20. I've got a couple jugs from my Hyundai days and need to get rid of it.

That is an interesting oil. CCS (5800 cP) and Noack (10.9%) are good, which are pointing toward a high-quality base oil. However, the base oil is very thin (HTFS = 1.8 cP) according to my calculator, and given that the density (0.856 g/mL) is on the high side for a 0W-20, it is indicating possible use of Group V alkylated naphthalene (AN), which Castrol may have done so to achieve extended performance (longer OCI's). AN has a high density and a low viscosity index (VI), the latter of which would explain the low base-oil (+ DDI-package) viscosity at 150 °C (HTFS).

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by wemay
It's in response to Gokhan advising M1EP was probably a better oil. And by the metrics of PAO, he's right...

I don't think I said exactly that. Base-oil quality is only one of the variables in the equation, even though it is a very big variable and the most dollarwise expensive variable.

I think few Euro-OEM 0W-20 oils are fully PAO-based. 50% PAO is still a very good amount.

Euro OEM 0W-20's oils are more keen on reducing wear than their ILSAC counterparts, as they keep the ZDDP level higher. I also typically see less VII content with them, which translates to a thicker base oil, which also reduces wear in theory. This doesn't necessarily mean than a Euro-OEM oil will outperform a given ILSAC oil in protecting against wear in real-life situations or even in actual bench engine tests.

The strength of Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 is what it is marketed for—longer OCI's. This is because of the higher-quality base oil and higher antioxidant content.

Moreover, it is hard to beat the research and development efforts of companies like ExxonMobil, which use custom additive packages and go through dozens of formulations before they choose the optimal formulation. This is in contrast to a generic Euro-OEM oil blended by using a generic OEM-approved additive package from a major additive supplier.

However, use the OEM-approved oil when you're in doubt, especially when your car is under warranty.

All VW 508.00/509.00 oils must meet max VW OCI in some countries ("old" European Community countries) which is 36,000km. Mobil1 EP longer OCI is advertisement and it clearly states that consumer should fallow OCI recommendations by manufacturer. It does not mean it will perform for 15 or no 20k in all vehicles or any vehicle. When VW approves oil for VW 508.00/509.00 that means that oil meets that OCI requirement.
The strength of VW 508.00/509.00 oils is that there is actual test whether they can do that OCI, unlike Mobil1 EP as EP is one size fits all oil.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by wemay
I'm going to try Edge EP 5W-20. I've got a couple jugs from my Hyundai days and need to get rid of it.

That is an interesting oil. CCS (5800 cP) and Noack (10.9%) are good, which are pointing toward a high-quality base oil. However, the base oil is very thin (HTFS = 1.8 cP) according to my calculator, and given that the density (0.856 g/mL) is on the high side for a 0W-20, it is indicating possible use of Group V alkylated naphthalene (AN), which Castrol may have done so to achieve extended performance (longer OCI's). AN has a high density and a low viscosity index (VI), the latter of which would explain the low base-oil (+ DDI-package) viscosity at 150 °C (HTFS).


Thanks Gokhan. All great information. I do enjoy your constructive banter with edyvw...when constructive ...Š

 

[wemay]

Tried to edit above to add...

I've only done two long intervals (8.5 and 12K mi) in my life,, both on Edge EP 5w20. Once in my Sonata 2.4 and another in a Fusion Ecoboost (not mine). Both had stellar UOA. The oil performed so well that it's all the Fusion has recived in it's ~100k miles. I believe it is has the 1.6T. I may get a UOA mid cycle here but not sure since I also don't want to cause a contentious thread due to my willingness to use a non-VW-approved oil. We'll see. But again...thank you.