ATF Differences?

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Feb 6, 2020
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Charlotte, NC
I work in industrial maintenance, where we use Mobil products. As such, I often use their forum for questions and such. I recently asked about ATF differences between manufactures. He didn't really get into the specific differences like I wanted, but just gave a general answer. Oh well, I thought that I would share it anyway. Here is my question:

It seems that practically each manufacturer now has their own specific transmission fluid that they want used. If you take any of these fluids and pour them into a cup, they basically all look and feel the same. What properties are so different between each of these fluids that they will not work in a different manufacturers transmission?

Here is the answer given by Korey Sargent, Lubrication Support E.I.T in Fuels and Lubricants Marketing at ExxonMobil:

Although you may not be able to see it or feel it with your hands, there can be major differences in these fluids. Keep in mind that most oils around the same viscosity (most ATF products are around ISO VG 32) are going to feel similar to each other and probably look very similar, as well.

The difference is in the additive chemistry and how the product is formulated. These processes have a large impact on final product performance and lifespan. These components and processes must be altered to meet requirements from different transmission manufacturers, which is why there is not 'one' single recipe which can be used in all transmissions. Some OEM transmission tests are quite difficult to pass and require many hours of field testing to ensure the proper lubrication is applied to their transmissions. This is why it is crucial to always select products which meet the requirements set out by the OEM.
 
ahh, to be a young E.I.T. again.

He is absolutely correct and the same can be said for many industrial hydraulic systems and couplings.
 
Did you ask him about Valvoline Maxlife? Works in many transmissions according to Valvoline.
 
MaxLife "is suitable for" but meets no specification. Castrol multi-vehicle is dex6 and Merc LV licensed but claims to meet many specs, like MaxLife.

I like the position that Idemitsu takes by having a different formulation for different specs. From personal experience with an Aisin, Castrol multi-vehicle ATF does NOT perform the same as TLS-LV. My Ford 5R110 disliked MaxLife but loves Castrol MV.

Mobil is right that there is no "universal" fluid and I like their take on the industry by not having a universal specification. They make a lot of OE fluids but don't share them with the aftermarket, unlike Idemitsu.
 
Originally Posted by AJB0009


Some OEM transmission tests are quite difficult to pass and require many hours of field testing to ensure the proper lubrication is applied to their transmissions.


Allison TES-295 certainly falls in this category.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Did you ask him about Valvoline Maxlife? Works in many transmissions according to Valvoline.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1169896

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...81009/all/VOA_of_Amsoil_ATL_Low-Viscosit

http://pqiadata.org/DuraMax_Global_ATF.html

https://www.ram1500diesel.com/threads/transmission-fluid-analysis.62142/

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03sSAyl5vRWHP_Ymg5BSyZerb9Kzw:1591138373748&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=mercon+lv+uoa&client=ms-android-verizon&fir=8XtdI00hQm-iFM%253A%252C2SrJiwAL-Hjp0M%252C_%253BRwGZOBWk8Ms6VM%253A%252C2SrJiwAL-Hjp0M%252C_%253BP0B0nXmMlxakRM%253A%252CRvzn_wf3qfYOAM%252C_%253B8Wxf_0ehthReJM%253A%252CktLZQNt9b_z-EM%252C_%253Bh-n3POTaIg23AM%253A%252CIYYbJJHT9v5cjM%252C_%253BsTPcI2sGFFYTQM%253A%252CIYYbJJHT9v5cjM%252C_%253BZwmaxZkf_RCYwM%253A%252CadDcWhah3719lM%252C_%253BwP7ew8c7qWxxaM%253A%252CIYYbJJHT9v5cjM%252C_%253BLbDWX_xyhmSA-M%253A%252CadDcWhah3719lM%252C_%253B1vGC5mgKWM5l0M%253A%252CIYYbJJHT9v5cjM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kThJOmbImitbpHCok9ObHU2UUdiQA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjiyLisnOTpAhVUGDQIHQ9NDOYQ7Al6BAgBEAI&biw=393&bih=714#imgrc=8XtdI00hQm-iFM

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03sSAyl5vRWHP_Ymg5BSyZerb9Kzw:1591138373748&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=mercon+lv+uoa&client=ms-android-verizon&fir=8XtdI00hQm-iFM%253A%252C2SrJiwAL-Hjp0M%252C_%253BRwGZOBWk8Ms6VM%253A%252C2SrJiwAL-Hjp0M%252C_%253BP0B0nXmMlxakRM%253A%252CRvzn_wf3qfYOAM%252C_%253B8Wxf_0ehthReJM%253A%252CktLZQNt9b_z-EM%252C_%253Bh-n3POTaIg23AM%253A%252CIYYbJJHT9v5cjM%252C_%253BsTPcI2sGFFYTQM%253A%252CIYYbJJHT9v5cjM%252C_%253BZwmaxZkf_RCYwM%253A%252CadDcWhah3719lM%252C_%253BwP7ew8c7qWxxaM%253A%252CIYYbJJHT9v5cjM%252C_%253BLbDWX_xyhmSA-M%253A%252CadDcWhah3719lM%252C_%253B1vGC5mgKWM5l0M%253A%252CIYYbJJHT9v5cjM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kThJOmbImitbpHCok9ObHU2UUdiQA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjiyLisnOTpAhVUGDQIHQ9NDOYQ7Al6BAgBEAI&biw=393&bih=714#imgrc=8XtdI00hQm-iFM

https://images.app.goo.gl/xCZMwxSDqxPYh55CA

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1667884

Being a son of a salesman don't believe salesmen. ATF's are a lot closer to being identical than different. Unless it's ATF+4 and a few others such as Allison.
 
Originally Posted by dwcopple
You should ask back how Mobil1 ATF can work in so many makes then...

It does work at least temporarily, we don't keep the vehicle long enough to see if there is a problem later on. Note what he said:
"The difference is in the additive chemistry and how the product is formulated. These processes have a large impact on final product performance and lifespan."
 
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by dwcopple
You should ask back how Mobil1 ATF can work in so many makes then...

It does work at least temporarily, we don't keep the vehicle long enough to see if there is a problem later on. Note what he said:
"The difference is in the additive chemistry and how the product is formulated. These processes have a large impact on final product performance and lifespan."

The lifespan is designed to last 120-150K miles according to many power train engineers. You can see this on YouTube when a new model comes out with a new power train. Also this is ambiguous for one this guy did not explain if ATF's has nearly identical additive and formulations or different.
 
Someone responded to the posting by the E.I.T. from Exxon Mobil. Here is what they said:

There are many products on the market that have a large number of approvals (regulations for use), the so-called Multi-Vehicle ATP, mostly for cars in the European and Asian markets. It turns out that one product replaces many others.

So then here is what Korey from Exxon Mobil responded:

Keep in mind that the majority of these products have "Recommended as Suitable for use" claims, this is not the same as a warranty approval.

For example, I have seen many of these products on the market which will claim a low viscosity specification but not be a low viscosity fluid. This just reinforces what I was saying earlier about being very careful about OEM approvals and which ones you are actually covered for.
 
Which LV fluid from a reputable blender isn't a LV fluid. And yes suitable for or recommended for a lot closer to warranty approval than not approved. So much it is nearly impossible to prove fluid cases failure especially when it's a group III blend with a ATF package from Afton, Infineum, Lubrizol, or BASF.
 
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by dwcopple
You should ask back how Mobil1 ATF can work in so many makes then...

It does work at least temporarily, we don't keep the vehicle long enough to see if there is a problem later on. Note what he said:
"The difference is in the additive chemistry and how the product is formulated. These processes have a large impact on final product performance and lifespan."

I have used M1 ATF in my 2007 Ford Fusion trans from the start. The car now has 258K with no trans problems. The M1 atf does not have the Ford spec but has performed great. I now use M1 LV atf in the 2017 Fusion and it likewise performs great but does not have the Ford spec. Very smooth shifts up and down.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by Pelican
Originally Posted by dwcopple
You should ask back how Mobil1 ATF can work in so many makes then...

It does work at least temporarily, we don't keep the vehicle long enough to see if there is a problem later on. Note what he said:
"The difference is in the additive chemistry and how the product is formulated. These processes have a large impact on final product performance and lifespan."

I have used M1 ATF in my 2007 Ford Fusion trans from the start. The car now has 258K with no trans problems. The M1 atf does not have the Ford spec but has performed great. I now use M1 LV atf in the 2017 Fusion and it likewise performs great but does not have the Ford spec. Very smooth shifts up and down.

If it works go for it. It's your transmission and don't let anyone tell you what fluid to use. If it meets the spec or not you're on the hook if it grenades and use whatever gives you the best shift feel. The mix of idemitsu hk, factory fluid, and Valvoline maxlife in my kia runs absolutely fine. That and a dash of lubegard red never hurt anything.
 
The best way to get a 1 size fits all ATF for your fleet is to buy based on ATF specs. It sounds good, but the research and gamble is a hassle IMO.

For me, different cars mean different fluids. I have a fluids shelf in the garage. Wifey knows what's for her car if it's ever needed and I'm not around.
 
Originally Posted by dlundblad
The best way to get a 1 size fits all ATF for your fleet is to buy based on ATF specs. It sounds good, but the research and gamble is a hassle IMO.

For me, different cars mean different fluids. I have a fluids shelf in the garage. Wifey knows what's for her car if it's ever needed and I'm not around.

I agree. I'm not a fan of anything that's universal or works for multiple makes of vehicles. I don't care how good the reputation is of the company making the fluid. Transmissions aren't cheap.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by dlundblad
The best way to get a 1 size fits all ATF for your fleet is to buy based on ATF specs. It sounds good, but the research and gamble is a hassle IMO.

For me, different cars mean different fluids. I have a fluids shelf in the garage. Wifey knows what's for her car if it's ever needed and I'm not around.

I agree. I'm not a fan of anything that's universal or works for multiple makes of vehicles. I don't care how good the reputation is of the company making the fluid. Transmissions aren't cheap.



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.aftonchemical.com/Afton/media/PdfFiles/Product/Driveline%2520Additives/HiTEC-4006_PDS.pdf%3Fext%3D.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwir3cKozerpAhW1HjQIHf61AFw4FBAWMAB6BAgGEAE&usg=AOvVaw3qzvAIRYY65mqapqkPBY4W

I guess ATF'S are so different because one fluid is formally certified MOPAR, DEXRON, JASO, and ZF.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by dlundblad
The best way to get a 1 size fits all ATF for your fleet is to buy based on ATF specs. It sounds good, but the research and gamble is a hassle IMO.

For me, different cars mean different fluids. I have a fluids shelf in the garage. Wifey knows what's for her car if it's ever needed and I'm not around.

I agree. I'm not a fan of anything that's universal or works for multiple makes of vehicles. I don't care how good the reputation is of the company making the fluid. Transmissions aren't cheap.


Agreed. Especially if you keep cars as long as I do.
 
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