Rotate mags?

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix




This is yet another example of why you never believe anything on the internet on its face. Every single part of his "test" including his "findings" are fundamentally and fatally flawed at every possible point.

First, he didn't test any sprint to any proper standard ( design load, design length, effective length, wire size, geometry etc.) so his dimensions are worthless

Second- he didn't account for varying manufacturing tolerances to compare like to like ( not uncommon to have an extra turn or end in a spring that just functions as a positioner because its a non critical application.

Third- those are 3 different designs ( notice the angles and bottom coil groups and the uniformness of the Ruger springs) with three different sets of parameters so all lateral testing is invalidated because they have different design reactions to loading.

His diatribe espousing what he thinks he knows is even worse.

This dude makes farm project look like a legitimate PhD. ( at least Farm put a degree of effort and legitimate attempt to design a test)

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix




SSDD but with a good point- count the turns on the 2 he compares- one is physically longer.

Remember- precision springs are ground on both ends to a given length

Magazine springs are for simple loading so may have angle variances ( even between manufacturers) and turn counts

Spring set is calculated in the design so even with minor differences they all still work ( which is the important part)

Just be careful taking these videos as legitimate gospel. This one ( as the other) contains no valid information regarding spring serviceability for purpose.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Just be careful taking these videos as legitimate gospel.
Gospel or not, his results mimic what I experienced with the 10 year+ loaded magazine that I had and confirms (for me) what I have suspected all along. It is not just the compression/decompression that "wears" a magazine spring, it is also long term full compression.

As I remember it, the magazine would properly function for about 7-8 of the 15 rounds and then the gun would jam due to the follower not pushing the next round up high enough for the slide to catch it. There was nothing wrong with the follower and it would easily move up and down in the magazine, the spring was not strong enough to push the ammo up past the 7th or 8th round. Other magazines from the same group that I had but not stored loaded functioned just fine.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Just be careful taking these videos as legitimate gospel.
Gospel or not, his results mimic what I experienced with the 10 year+ loaded magazine that I had and confirms (for me) what I have suspected all along. It is not just the compression/decompression that "wears" a magazine spring, it is also long term full compression.

As I remember it, the magazine would properly function for about 7-8 of the 15 rounds and then the gun would jam due to the follower not pushing the next round up high enough for the slide to catch it. There was nothing wrong with the follower and it would easily move up and down in the magazine, the spring was not strong enough to push the ammo up past the 7th or 8th round. Other magazines from the same group that I had but not stored loaded functioned just fine.


I don't doubt your account for a second but your conclusions ( as are theirs) are at best anecdotal and ( for them) the methods used are actually contradictory against all known legitimate tests and standards for the items in question- no other way to put it. That's not an opinion or observation- its a fact.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts and an "argumentum ad populum" is not a legitimate review or establishes the credibility of various "articles" regardless of how well meaning or intentioned.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
I don't doubt your account for a second but your conclusions ( as are theirs) are at best anecdotal and ( for them) the methods used are actually contradictory against all known legitimate tests and standards for the items in question- no other way to put it. That's not an opinion or observation- its a fact.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts and an "argumentum ad populum" is not a legitimate review or establishes the credibility of various "articles" regardless of how well meaning or intentioned.
Anecdotal or not, in the end, what actually happened in my case is all that matters to me. We can argue the merits of proper testing and controlled environments and all the rest, until the cows come home, but if every time I store a fully loaded magazine for long periods of time and the springs weaken and the ones that I store unloaded do not, it becomes readily apparent to me what I will do in the future related to magazine storage.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix




SSDD but with a good point- count the turns on the 2 he compares- one is physically longer.

Remember- precision springs are ground on both ends to a given length

Magazine springs are for simple loading so may have angle variances ( even between manufacturers) and turn counts

Spring set is calculated in the design so even with minor differences they all still work ( which is the important part)

Just be careful taking these videos as legitimate gospel. This one ( as the other) contains no valid information regarding spring serviceability for purpose.


All 4 of those magazine springs have 15 coil turns.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix


All 4 of those magazine springs have 15 coil turns.


On the bigger screen I count 14 turns with 2 ears so they are the same. ( shadows ran together on the other screen) and the items are angled to the lens.

Either way, germane to the issue, well within tolerance and function for the application and doesn't detract from the rest.

Neither of those have changed nor are they going to.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I someone doesn't believe that magazine springs can take a set if fully loaded and stored for a long time, then they should do their own tests. It's not hard to do, but takes a long time to verify.

 

[hatt]

Quote
Grab a few spare magazines for your Bodyguard today, and don't forget to rotate your carry/loaded magazines every 3-6 months to ensure maximum reliability.
They may have meant rotate the ammo, which is a good idea. If they aren't I have no idea what they're talking about.

My carry/defensive gun mags stay loaded. When they go to the range and used, they get reloaded and stay loaded till the next range trip. That's a harder life than getting loaded and put away for 10-20 years. A mag that fails because it was loaded for 10 years had a problem somewhere.

 

[bsmithwins]

Another factor is that not all magazines and springs are created equal.

Some magazines (cough Promag cough) are made to the lowest possible price point and should be counted more as magazine shaped objects than magazines.

BSW

 

[Alfred_B]

Unless you have some crappy magazines, I see no point in worrying about their performance.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Originally Posted by bsmithwins
Another factor is that not all magazines and springs are created equal.

Some magazines (cough Promag cough) are made to the lowest possible price point and should be counted more as magazine shaped objects than magazines.

BSW


That's where a lot of this "illusion" comes from and "Joe Public" doesn't have access to the actual requirements so what appears to be a bad or weak spring ( which in fact it is) in reality is an under designed spring so it never was "right" to begin with.

I've seen many that just drop a wire size and wrap it ( some will use hardened wire in place of proper heat treatment) which is what these "lower end" magazines usually do. Either one of those can take 50+% of a springs tension ability away from the beginning depending on how its made.

So even though they are "bad springs" - they never were "good" springs. They were destined to provide unsatisfactory service from the beginning.

 

[marine65]

Originally Posted by bsmithwins
Another factor is that not all magazines and springs are created equal.

Some magazines (cough Promag cough) are made to the lowest possible price point and should be counted more as magazine shaped objects than magazines.

BSW


I want to get a couple extra mags and saw that Promag is a little cheaper then the S&W.
But I thought with something this important it would be best to spend a couple bucks more and get the genuine S&W.
Or am I wrong on this?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted by marine65
I want to get a couple extra mags and saw that Promag is a little cheaper then the S&W.
But I thought with something this important it would be best to spend a couple bucks more and get the genuine S&W.
Or am I wrong on this?

Run from ProMag as fast and as far as you can--they are absolute garbage. I stick OEM for self-defense carry and use MagPul and the like for target practice. I have not found a good 3rd party replacement for S&W so they are all OEM in my stable.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted by marine65
Originally Posted by bsmithwins
Another factor is that not all magazines and springs are created equal.

Some magazines (cough Promag cough) are made to the lowest possible price point and should be counted more as magazine shaped objects than magazines.

BSW


I want to get a couple extra mags and saw that Promag is a little cheaper then the S&W.
But I thought with something this important it would be best to spend a couple bucks more and get the genuine S&W.
Or am I wrong on this?

For handguns you really need the factory mags(I'd trust Magpul 9mm Glock mags but that's about it). Look around and you can find S&W mags on sale sometimes. I got a 3 pack of Shield mags from Brownells a while back for $50.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Midway is currently having a sale on Smith and Wesson mags. FYI.

 

[bsmithwins]

The only two pistol mag manufacturers I trust are OEM and Mec-Gar. Mec-Gar makes a lot of OEM mags for different pistol companies and they know their stuff.

For rifle mags it's hard to argue against Magpul's line. At my local rifle match AR15 malfunctions went from ‘eh, that happens' to ‘what happened? That rifle quit working? That's odd!' as P-Mags became more and more popular.

You can break a P-Mag so that it quits working. At that point the magazine is obviously broken and nobody would think otherwise. With metal mags they can be subtly wrong, so you get these weird intermittent failures that can be hard to ascribe to ammo, enough lube, mag, holding the gun weird...

BSW

 

[marine65]

I just ordered 2 oem mags off eBay.
$31.16 shipped and taxed.

 

[blupupher]

I bought my Ruger P89 in 1992 and the 2 magazines have been loaded with 15 rounds since that time. Thousands of rounds shot out of them.
Never had an issue with them.

Originally Posted by marine65
I want to get a couple extra mags and saw that Promag is a little cheaper then the S&W.
But I thought with something this important it would be best to spend a couple bucks more and get the genuine S&W.
Or am I wrong on this?

I bought some pro-mags for my P89 (a 20 and 32 round) to have to play with. They are not for protection, That is what the 2 original 15 rd Ruger mags are for.
So far, the 20 round mag has worked just fine (probably 500 rounds through it), but the 32 round mag has issues (won't feed correctly if loaded with 31 or 32, usually OK if 30 or less).

For my M&P 9 Shield, I only have S&W mags.

So for target practice, any mag is fine (and having a bad mag is a good thing, helps you practice issues), but when you need to count on it, I agree with genuine manufacture mags.

 

[bsmithwins]

I keep a screwed up magazines around for exactly the purpose of training. Each one is scribed with ‘bad' in high letters so it doesn't get mixed in with the good mags.

BSW