More M1 changes

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Flashlightboy

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I was browsing the M1 site looking to see what was GF6 and SP when I noticed a couple of interesting changes to a couple of their oils.

AFE 0w30 always had a lower cSt than vanilla M1 5w30 at 10.9 v. 11 however today AFE meets the new standards and the cSt had been raised to 11.5.

Truck and SUV decreased their cSt from 11.5 to 11.1 which is what vanilla was almost at.

Both of these oils are GF6 and SP.

The M1 product line is awfully confusing because of overlap and changes and now Pennzoil is on that bandwagon too.
 
The Extended Performance oils, in the benefits section now says "Guaranteed up to 20,000 miles". Also a change from the 15,000 we're all used to reading.
 
AFE now has 30-40% PAO.

Mobil 1 AP is being discontinued and EP is replacing it.

The site is in the process of being updated as you can see that there is data missing.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
People driving their TGDIs will buy the EP and extend the OCI to 20k.
Yikes!


Anyone with a Forced Induction engine or any type of GDI going more than 7500 miles on an oil change is just asking for it down the road. I know here on BITOG people debate over silly things, but I have seen with my own eyes the carbon build up and how oil breaks down in GDI motors.

The German brands that have GDI and turbo at least spec an oil better suited. Meaning their "European" formulas mainly using "heavy" 30w or using a 40w oil will help with the fuel dilution issues of these type of motors.

As for my Hyundai Sonata (2012) after the new engine installed in 2015 under warranty, When they had my engine apart I looked in it. The engine was clean per se, the valve train was spotless (Castrol Edge EP 5w30 every 5k miles) but the valves and piston tops were gunked up pretty bad.

I keep telling people. Oil is cheap. Change it more often. Cars now a days aren't as simple as they once were. Now with all the VVT, VTEC, and all that, why do you feel stretching your oil as far out as you can to save a few bucks is worth more than your engine down the road? It just boggles my mind.

Now I wait to be bashed by people that don't own a GDI car. haha. Or the ones that do, but have not had any issues yet......Let it commence.
28.gif
 
Originally Posted by Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
People driving their TGDIs will buy the EP and extend the OCI to 20k.
Yikes!


Anyone with a Forced Induction engine or any type of GDI going more than 7500 miles on an oil change is just asking for it down the road. I know here on BITOG people debate over silly things, but I have seen with my own eyes the carbon build up and how oil breaks down in GDI motors.

The German brands that have GDI and turbo at least spec an oil better suited. Meaning their "European" formulas mainly using "heavy" 30w or using a 40w oil will help with the fuel dilution issues of these type of motors.

As for my Hyundai Sonata (2012) after the new engine installed in 2015 under warranty, When they had my engine apart I looked in it. The engine was clean per se, the valve train was spotless (Castrol Edge EP 5w30 every 5k miles) but the valves and piston tops were gunked up pretty bad.

I keep telling people. Oil is cheap. Change it more often. Cars now a days aren't as simple as they once were. Now with all the VVT, VTEC, and all that, why do you feel stretching your oil as far out as you can to save a few bucks is worth more than your engine down the road? It just boggles my mind.

Now I wait to be bashed by people that don't own a GDI car. haha. Or the ones that do, but have not had any issues yet......Let it commence.
28.gif




I agree in general, but as you stated I know of many GDI and TGDI vehicles that have far exceeded 100K miles using the dealer bulk oil and interval. There are a percentage that will end up paying for treating their vehicles in this manner but I think it's probably a pretty low percentage.
 
Agree with Jeff 100%. Personally, I cut the recommended OCI in half. I recommend the same to all, as do the dealers. They're really not trying to "rip people off", just advise with great knowledge.
 
Originally Posted by Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
People driving their TGDIs will buy the EP and extend the OCI to 20k.
Yikes!


Anyone with a Forced Induction engine or any type of GDI going more than 7500 miles on an oil change is just asking for it down the road. I know here on BITOG people debate over silly things, but I have seen with my own eyes the carbon build up and how oil breaks down in GDI motors.

The German brands that have GDI and turbo at least spec an oil better suited. Meaning their "European" formulas mainly using "heavy" 30w or using a 40w oil will help with the fuel dilution issues of these type of motors.

As for my Hyundai Sonata (2012) after the new engine installed in 2015 under warranty, When they had my engine apart I looked in it. The engine was clean per se, the valve train was spotless (Castrol Edge EP 5w30 every 5k miles) but the valves and piston tops were gunked up pretty bad.

I keep telling people. Oil is cheap. Change it more often. Cars now a days aren't as simple as they once were. Now with all the VVT, VTEC, and all that, why do you feel stretching your oil as far out as you can to save a few bucks is worth more than your engine down the road? It just boggles my mind.

Now I wait to be bashed by people that don't own a GDI car. haha. Or the ones that do, but have not had any issues yet......Let it commence.
28.gif




cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted by Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
People driving their TGDIs will buy the EP and extend the OCI to 20k.
Yikes!


Anyone with a Forced Induction engine or any type of GDI going more than 7500 miles on an oil change is just asking for it down the road. I know here on BITOG people debate over silly things, but I have seen with my own eyes the carbon build up and how oil breaks down in GDI motors.

The German brands that have GDI and turbo at least spec an oil better suited. Meaning their "European" formulas mainly using "heavy" 30w or using a 40w oil will help with the fuel dilution issues of these type of motors.

As for my Hyundai Sonata (2012) after the new engine installed in 2015 under warranty, When they had my engine apart I looked in it. The engine was clean per se, the valve train was spotless (Castrol Edge EP 5w30 every 5k miles) but the valves and piston tops were gunked up pretty bad.

I keep telling people. Oil is cheap. Change it more often. Cars now a days aren't as simple as they once were. Now with all the VVT, VTEC, and all that, why do you feel stretching your oil as far out as you can to save a few bucks is worth more than your engine down the road? It just boggles my mind.

Now I wait to be bashed by people that don't own a GDI car. haha. Or the ones that do, but have not had any issues yet......Let it commence.
28.gif



My Hyundai Accent w 1.6 was GDi and had good luck with 5k mile oci. Used 5w30 PP as it was HTO6 spec and seemed to work well. Going to a 2020 T-GDI Civic I think it will be Mobil 1 5w30 or Redline 0w30/5w30. Probably change at 7500 if I can get a Mishimoto oil cooler added on as I want to up the power with 27 Won exhaust and bigger turbo. Definitely not wanting HTHS below 3.0 or 3.7 above.
 
Yes, the different product lines make things confusing. Major companies are looking to serve new (invented) market segments. How many people drive 20,000 miles in a year? I thought the average driver goes 12,000 miles per year. How many people would be better served by changing their oil only once in those 20,000 miles? How does EP affect warranty work? Why has no major car maker gotten behind the product?
 
Good for M1 doing the study on oil and presenting great results during 20K miles cross country trip.
Driving for hundreds of miles at a time under ideal engine operating conditions and than slapping the 20,000 number on the bottle.

But let's be real here. Who drives under those ideal conditions? Hardly anyone. Most of us if not all drive under severe conditions of short trips (specially during cold weather), stop and go traffic, dusty environment etc. Use of flex-fuels adds to more problems to longevity of the oil. Luckily I've had access to ethanol free gas here in Nevada since I moved here 38 years ago.

When average Joe or Jen sees oil on shelve with those high millage numbers and thinking, oh my, look how long I don't have to change oil not realizing they're making a bad decision, specially if they have GDI engine.

In my last 16 years of employment before retiring I had only 4.8 miles to get there and in winter I never saw oil temperature come on. Oil temperature normally comes up when oil reaches 118 F.

For all those reasons above I always change oil every 6 months which is usually around 5-6K miles regardless of how good quality oil I buy or what millage it says on bottle it's good for. I do take 2 or 3 trips a month to Reno Whole Foods which is usually 70-80 miles round trip and that's the only time when I see oil temp reach between 207F and 215F depending how hard I drive and temp outside.
During summer months I like to go to Tahoe every weekend which is about 20 miles.
 
I've seen quite a few stellar 10k mile uoa from gdi vehicles. Most notably lately from VWs using 508.00 spec'd 0W-20 (2.6 hths) motor oils. As well as BMW using TDT LL014 FE, not to mention countless Toyotas.
 
I've run 10k OCI's on our Ecoboost since new, with both engines. (First was ruined by an oil change place that double-gasketed the filter, causing it to blow all the oil out). I think 10k with our driving pattern is easily handled by M1 EP 5w30. The engine runs good as new.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
I've seen quite a few stellar 10k mile uoa from gdi vehicles. Most notably lately from VWs using 508.00 spec'd 0W-20 (2.6 hths) motor oils. As well as BMW using TDT LL014 FE, not to mention countless Toyotas.


I've never done UOA but I guess it's helpful to know viscosity, depletion rate of antiware/detergent additives and contaminates count.
TBN and TAN is probably the most important info to know but cost additional extra money.

I rather use the money to buy quality oil and do it at shorter intervals @ around 5K miles or 6 months knowing that all those numbers will be good.

I don't need to know how many xx more miles I can go based on UOA without knowing how that oil performed at operating temperature in PSI wear test, it's effects on soot build up, piston deposits, bearing and ring wear.
 
Originally Posted by LotI
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Why is a GDI engine harder on oil than a MPFI engine?

Soot and fuel dilution.


I see this quoted a lot (soot / fuel dilution), but in the TGDI I maintain (Hyundai 2.0T), the oil analysis has only shown nominal amounts of fuel in the used oil over a normal OCI (less than 0.5%). I realize some GDI's have more fuel dilution, but that hasn't been my experience.

Another thing I wonder about is that GDI was created to make the combustion process more complete / efficient. If the fuel is being more completely burned and less of it being consumed, how is it making more soot than other types of fuel delivery, like carburetors, MPI etc.?
 
Originally Posted by buster
AFE now has 30-40% PAO.

Mobil 1 AP is being discontinued and EP is replacing it.

The site is in the process of being updated as you can see that there is data missing.


How much PAO is in EP? I thought EP 0w20 had the highest PAO?
 
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