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Car Reviewers #5443201 05/31/20 01:43 PM
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borgward Offline OP
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Car reviewers like Consumers reports, are out of their league on reviewing cars. Their yardstick is will it get down the road 3 years. They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair. How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do. No mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers.

Seeing how most vehicles come with a huge display screen on the dash, they could just have warning codes popup on screen so you know exactly what's going on.

Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443221 05/31/20 02:09 PM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted by borgward
They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair.
They can't base their review on something that may or may not happen down the road, IMO. While a potential risk is there, it's not easy to quantify. A million different things can go wrong, or they may not.

Quote
How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do. No mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers.
My guess is most people don't do their own maintenance, so this is irrelevant to majority of the buying public.


Quote
Seeing how most vehicles come with a huge display screen on the dash, they could just have warning codes popup on screen so you know exactly what's going on.
Most vehicles do store/track fault codes. Some just make it easier to access them than others.


2002 530i   2015 Q5 3.0T   2018 Charger SRT
Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443224 05/31/20 02:15 PM
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supton Offline
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Originally Posted by borgward
Car reviewers like Consumers reports, are out of their league on reviewing cars. Their yardstick is will it get down the road 3 years.

I don't think they care even that far--more like, will it take me back to my free perks for giving this a review?

Snark aside, most of the reviews I've come across have no real care for longevity. All about soft touch areas and the like. Which to frank is all that most new car buyers care about. I don't know what the statistic is, but I'll be the majority of new car buyers aren't in it for the long haul. 5 and done is what I'd bet--and for most of those buyers, they won't be doing a timing belt. And probably not doing any of the maintenance either.

I suspect that, if there truly was a market for long term reviews of new cars--it'd exist, someplace. Most people don't care.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 206k
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 160k
2003 CRV, 2.4L/4AT, 161k
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 225k
Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443228 05/31/20 02:20 PM
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skyactiv Offline
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I'm making guesses here.
Knowing Consumers Reports, they think you shouldn't service your own vehicle unless you are properly trained.

OBDII is the only requirement on new vehicles. Do you really think the dealers and the auto makers wanna make it easier for the owner ?
Imagine this: Trouble code pops up on the big display saying P0101 mass air flow sensor trouble suspected. The owner goes on Youtube, buys an after market mass airflow sensor, fixes the vehicle
without setting foot at the dealer service department.

Most people don't give a rats tail about a water pump or how hard it is to change the oil filter. The few that do are the type of people who buy used, not new anyways.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 18' Elantra Sport 6 speed manual
The rude guy that points out reality


Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443240 05/31/20 02:35 PM
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SWS Offline
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Overall, I agree with the OP. I think CR and other car reviewers provide useful input, and they try to be fair.
However, every reviewer seems to completely ignore underlying design issues / recalls / repeated failures, and software bugs, that have caused real problems, sometimes for years, and are rather well documented with simple searches.

Furthermore, there is unfortunately a variety of 'brand bashing', 'brand-loving', outdated or incorrect review info to be found. Having recently gone through the new car selection process, I find it maddening. Nevertheless, I was able to get the info I needed once I learned to read reviews followed by the all-important test drive with a critical eye.

Car reviewers who get free access to new cars or are otherwise 'paid' by the car manufacturers for their reviews are walking a fine line, and you can see it in their reviews. I learned to trust a just few reviewers, which actually made my selection easier.
CR does not accept advertising dollars, but their auto reviews simply do not have enough detail to make a decision - they want you to trust their single 'overall score'. They get questions every month in 'letters to the editor' about a specific vehicle problem or feature. They always say that they knew about it and deducted or added points in their 'overall score' because of it. Their automobile reviewers are quite happy with this new-ish 'single score' no-detail system.
I find CR's reviews about appliances & lawnmowers more useful because of the few words of detail provided.

Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443259 05/31/20 02:51 PM
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MParr Offline
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I used to do a lot of purchasing based on CR reviews. Not any more. I’ve been bitten by buying their recommended products.


2019 VW Tiguan SE 2.0 TSI Now: Castrol Pro OE LL IV 0W20 & OE VW
2020 F-150 STX Super Cab 2WD 2.7 Ecoboost. FF & OE filter
Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443277 05/31/20 03:21 PM
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ABN_CBT_ENGR Offline
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Look at it from a different viewpoint

More likely than not these "reviewers' review from a checklist developed by some survey firm that has conducted a "study" and determined that this "market segment" ( define it as you wish) finds "these things" important (define this too as you wish) that the publishers of whatever forum deem financially important to the subscription base. ( what the readers want)

If that's correct then the readers might try to contact the publishers ( maybe in a magazine poll or something) to update the review standards and categories to include things like these listed.

It could be as simple as a disconnect between the readers and the writers and nobody ever set it straight.

Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443295 05/31/20 03:42 PM
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sloinker Offline
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I think that CR does a decent job for their readers. They look at feedback over time and rate accordingly. The Toyota's and Honda's and Nowadays Korean cars seem to get good ongoing scores. This is fine for Aunt Batty and Cousin Rick when they shop and want to do some measure of due diligence..... If you wrench your own cars then you need manufacturer specific software to diagnose and render repairs unless the generic code reader gives a clue. CR may help you decide but probably won't be a deal breaker if you take the path less traveled.

Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443312 05/31/20 03:55 PM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Yeah, CR provides good information but is geared for a consumer audience.
But their ratings offer value.
One thing many reviewers seem to leave out is resale value.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443321 05/31/20 03:57 PM
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CKN Offline
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Originally Posted by borgward
Car reviewers like Consumers reports, are out of their league on reviewing cars. Their yardstick is will it get down the road 3 years. They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair. How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do. No mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers.

Seeing how most vehicles come with a huge display screen on the dash, they could just have warning codes popup on screen so you know exactly what's going on.



I feel the same way about guys saying their cars run better on one brand of oil than another...............


You do realize that many, many people don't own their cars long enough to require the repairs you mentioned-nor do they change their own oil.

Last edited by CKN; 05/31/20 03:59 PM.
Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443323 05/31/20 03:59 PM
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borgward Offline OP
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I think what CR is missing is that Aunt Betty and Cousin Rick would like to know is whether their purchase has a design problem that is either going to cost them big money to fix or bring down their trade in value.

They are beginning to loose credibility in other areas, paint for one. My sister bought a washing machine on their recommendation. Does not do small loads. Takes forever to run through a wash cycle. It's one of the 'modern" ones that does not have an agitator like the still running old Kenmore's have.

Sorry, I digress

Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443324 05/31/20 03:59 PM
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earlyre Offline
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Originally Posted by borgward
...They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair. How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do.


that's one of the things I love about my Hybrid.
Timing Chain, separate chain for the oil pump, Everything else is Electric.
No accessory belt drive.

Electric Water pump, Electric power steering, Electric A/C.

what about the charging system you ask? with no alternator?
one of the 2 Electric motors in the trans ( I believe the smaller one, mated to the crank ) doubles as an Alternator/Starter

Last edited by earlyre; 05/31/20 04:00 PM.

Mine:
13 Ford C-MAX hybrid: Bulk Maxlife Full Syn 5w20,& Valvoline Jobber Filter
( I was Lazy and had a Groupon)
Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443325 05/31/20 04:00 PM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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There is also a lotta people who buy used cars, right?


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443359 05/31/20 04:37 PM
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Cdn17Sport6MT Offline
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Originally Posted by borgward
...No(t to) mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers...



This SO p*sses me off. BMW is one of the worst in this respect that I'm aware of. That and no spare parts / (effectively) non-repairable manual transmissions.Really a shame because (for me) there are many things to like when it comes to BMW's (YMMV).

I have a '17 Mazda6 - and the factory workshop manual is REALLY complete. Very impresed.


Mazda6 GX (i.e.Sport), 6MT, '17
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (Euro version), '85
Honda Civic Si (EX 2 dr in the 'States), A/T, '97
Toyota Camry CE, 5MT, '99
Toyota Corolla VE, 4AT, '99
VW (Type2) Kombi, 4MT, '79
Re: Car Reviewers [Re: borgward] #5443427 05/31/20 05:57 PM
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Farnsworth Offline
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What happened to the first car view, why do they need to review the car.
CR has an extensive reliability database on all the cars components. The samples are large and cover many years. If a water pump has issues, then if they see it they list it with a black mark, if not they don't.

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