Car Reviewers

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Car reviewers like Consumers reports, are out of their league on reviewing cars. Their yardstick is will it get down the road 3 years. They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair. How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do. No mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers.

Seeing how most vehicles come with a huge display screen on the dash, they could just have warning codes popup on screen so you know exactly what's going on.
 
Originally Posted by borgward
They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair.
They can't base their review on something that may or may not happen down the road, IMO. While a potential risk is there, it's not easy to quantify. A million different things can go wrong, or they may not.

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How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do. No mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers.
My guess is most people don't do their own maintenance, so this is irrelevant to majority of the buying public.


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Seeing how most vehicles come with a huge display screen on the dash, they could just have warning codes popup on screen so you know exactly what's going on.
Most vehicles do store/track fault codes. Some just make it easier to access them than others.
 
Originally Posted by borgward
Car reviewers like Consumers reports, are out of their league on reviewing cars. Their yardstick is will it get down the road 3 years.

I don't think they care even that far--more like, will it take me back to my free perks for giving this a review?

Snark aside, most of the reviews I've come across have no real care for longevity. All about soft touch areas and the like. Which to frank is all that most new car buyers care about. I don't know what the statistic is, but I'll be the majority of new car buyers aren't in it for the long haul. 5 and done is what I'd bet--and for most of those buyers, they won't be doing a timing belt. And probably not doing any of the maintenance either.

I suspect that, if there truly was a market for long term reviews of new cars--it'd exist, someplace. Most people don't care.
 
I'm making guesses here.
Knowing Consumers Reports, they think you shouldn't service your own vehicle unless you are properly trained.

OBDII is the only requirement on new vehicles. Do you really think the dealers and the auto makers wanna make it easier for the owner ?
Imagine this: Trouble code pops up on the big display saying P0101 mass air flow sensor trouble suspected. The owner goes on Youtube, buys an after market mass airflow sensor, fixes the vehicle
without setting foot at the dealer service department.

Most people don't give a rats tail about a water pump or how hard it is to change the oil filter. The few that do are the type of people who buy used, not new anyways.
 
Overall, I agree with the OP. I think CR and other car reviewers provide useful input, and they try to be fair.
However, every reviewer seems to completely ignore underlying design issues / recalls / repeated failures, and software bugs, that have caused real problems, sometimes for years, and are rather well documented with simple searches.

Furthermore, there is unfortunately a variety of 'brand bashing', 'brand-loving', outdated or incorrect review info to be found. Having recently gone through the new car selection process, I find it maddening. Nevertheless, I was able to get the info I needed once I learned to read reviews followed by the all-important test drive with a critical eye.

Car reviewers who get free access to new cars or are otherwise 'paid' by the car manufacturers for their reviews are walking a fine line, and you can see it in their reviews. I learned to trust a just few reviewers, which actually made my selection easier.
CR does not accept advertising dollars, but their auto reviews simply do not have enough detail to make a decision - they want you to trust their single 'overall score'. They get questions every month in 'letters to the editor' about a specific vehicle problem or feature. They always say that they knew about it and deducted or added points in their 'overall score' because of it. Their automobile reviewers are quite happy with this new-ish 'single score' no-detail system.
I find CR's reviews about appliances & lawnmowers more useful because of the few words of detail provided.
 
I used to do a lot of purchasing based on CR reviews. Not any more. I've been bitten by buying their recommended products.
 
Look at it from a different viewpoint

More likely than not these "reviewers' review from a checklist developed by some survey firm that has conducted a "study" and determined that this "market segment" ( define it as you wish) finds "these things" important (define this too as you wish) that the publishers of whatever forum deem financially important to the subscription base. ( what the readers want)

If that's correct then the readers might try to contact the publishers ( maybe in a magazine poll or something) to update the review standards and categories to include things like these listed.

It could be as simple as a disconnect between the readers and the writers and nobody ever set it straight.
 
I think that CR does a decent job for their readers. They look at feedback over time and rate accordingly. The Toyota's and Honda's and Nowadays Korean cars seem to get good ongoing scores. This is fine for Aunt Batty and Cousin Rick when they shop and want to do some measure of due diligence..... If you wrench your own cars then you need manufacturer specific software to diagnose and render repairs unless the generic code reader gives a clue. CR may help you decide but probably won't be a deal breaker if you take the path less traveled.
 
Yeah, CR provides good information but is geared for a consumer audience.
But their ratings offer value.
One thing many reviewers seem to leave out is resale value.
 
Originally Posted by borgward
Car reviewers like Consumers reports, are out of their league on reviewing cars. Their yardstick is will it get down the road 3 years. They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair. How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do. No mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers.

Seeing how most vehicles come with a huge display screen on the dash, they could just have warning codes popup on screen so you know exactly what's going on.



I feel the same way about guys saying their cars run better on one brand of oil than another...............


You do realize that many, many people don't own their cars long enough to require the repairs you mentioned-nor do they change their own oil.
 
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I think what CR is missing is that Aunt Betty and Cousin Rick would like to know is whether their purchase has a design problem that is either going to cost them big money to fix or bring down their trade in value.

They are beginning to loose credibility in other areas, paint for one. My sister bought a washing machine on their recommendation. Does not do small loads. Takes forever to run through a wash cycle. It's one of the 'modern" ones that does not have an agitator like the still running old Kenmore's have.

Sorry, I digress
 
Originally Posted by borgward
...They fail to mention that the water pump is driven by the camshaft chain or belt and will require major trouble or expense to repair. How easy to change the oil filter, and other maintenance jobs that should be easy to do.


that's one of the things I love about my Hybrid.
Timing Chain, separate chain for the oil pump, Everything else is Electric.
No accessory belt drive.

Electric Water pump, Electric power steering, Electric A/C.

what about the charging system you ask? with no alternator?
one of the 2 Electric motors in the trans ( I believe the smaller one, mated to the crank ) doubles as an Alternator/Starter
 
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Originally Posted by borgward
...No(t to) mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers...



This SO p*sses me off. BMW is one of the worst in this respect that I'm aware of. That and no spare parts / (effectively) non-repairable manual transmissions.Really a shame because (for me) there are many things to like when it comes to BMW's (YMMV).

I have a '17 Mazda6 - and the factory workshop manual is REALLY complete. Very impresed.
 
What happened to the first car view, why do they need to review the car.
CR has an extensive reliability database on all the cars components. The samples are large and cover many years. If a water pump has issues, then if they see it they list it with a black mark, if not they don't.
 
CR's reviews are perfectly suited to its intended audience…as much as Car and Driver's, Motor Trend's, and so on, for theirs.

Its audience is not going to know whether a water pump, if they are even aware of the component at all, circulates engine coolant, or blinker fluid. Nor whether muffler bearings require 30k service.

Nor do its reviewers have a time machine, or crystal ball, to predict any design flaws that may surface in the future, and give it the insight to warn potential buyers in the present. What it does do is is collect reliability data from its readers and study which vehicles are more likely to be trouble-prone. And when that data conflicts with its original projections, it's not afraid to point that out.

Odd to see the one publication that tries to be free of bias (accepts no advertising, purchases all the products it reviews), and with an emphasis on reliability and durability be called out for lacking that. It may not contain the level of detail you expect, but which other publication can make those claims? Others' long term tests, when they do bother with them, are on loaners, so they have no stake in the game. How many pages do they devote to product recalls, including automotive, each month? Do their recommendations come with a snazzy-looking trophy, accompanied by a lavish advertising spread for the honorees in those same pages?

It used to be that CR was mostly criticized for not being "car people," and doing no real testing. Yet those have been neutralized by the fact that CR has its own test track, and does objective performance testing. No, they won't tell you how many g's a CR-V will pull around the skidpad compared to a CX-5, or which pulls the better 1/4-mile, but again, its readership is not looking for that information or care.

While CR is hardly the ultimate authority or the sole source any diligent buyer should consult, its reviews have value, in ways that many others do not.


Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
Originally Posted by borgward
...No(t to) mention that you can no longer buy a service manual or optical disc from some manufacturers...


This SO p*sses me off. BMW is one of the worst in this respect that I'm aware of. That and no spare parts / (effectively) non-repairable manual transmissions.Really a shame because (for me) there are many things to like when it comes to BMW's (YMMV).

I have a '17 Mazda6 - and the factory workshop manual is REALLY complete. Very impresed.


BMW is very stingy with its technical support, but ironically, that makes it one of the easiest brands to obtain such information for, given its enthusiastic owner base.

The factory ETK parts catalogs have been readily available online at least two decades, and the TIS repair information for models up to a current G-series is online as well, at least unofficially. Officially, TIS subscriptions are available in daily, monthly, and annual increments.

The ETM wiring diagrams and EBA accessories installation instructions aren't as easy to find, but can be found.

And in situations where those sources aren't sufficient, the Bentley manuals or the owner forums can fill in.

Honestly, anybody who has used the TIS repair instructions will tell you it's often of limited value, terse, and not very illuminating.

Granted, that's not the same as being able to walk into a Honda or Volvo dealer, and have them hand you a thick tome over the parts counter, but I don't know if they even still do that, but there's hardly an information vacuum, at least when it comes to BMW, even if it may not come from official channels.

In terms of parts, component-level availability for things like gearboxes may not be what it used to be, but try walking into some other brand's dealer and asking for something random for a 25-year old model, and not having them give you a funny look.
 
It would be interesting for a couple of current automotive engineers to review new cars for durability. They could show where the manufacturer is doing some really well or cutting some corners to make some extra profit. Eventually the cars quality becomes obvious in the used market but that doesn't help the long term new car buyer.
When we've bought new, we minimize risk by getting the simple version of a car that's been out for several years. No major repairs so far, but I'd rather buy used when all the issues with a car are well known and I can decide if I want to deal with them or not.
 
An engineer or anyone can't determine reliability without some statistical bases which means you need many vehicles of the same model, engine drive-line etc. That is what CU trys to do by tracking 100+ vehicle over a 5 year or longer period. I think they do a commendable job. Ed
 
As someone with automotive material published places like Motorweek and CarandDriver do have long term test vehicles and write about them.
 
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