tetraethyl lead additive

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Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?
 
It was widely used when I was young . I also thought it was banned for automotive use . Do not know if it was banned for aviation gas ?
 
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?


It definitely is prohibited in street gas and has been for decades. Where did you see that - a very old pump or something? Race fuel would be my guess.
That makes the most sense. Their 87/89/93, etc. don't have lead but certain stations may elect to sell 110 leaded or some such thing - more common near racetracks or something.
 
Here in Spain we had leaded fuel until IIRC 01/01/2003 is when it was officially banned.
Cats were only made mandatory in 1993, i had a 1992 Ford Escort 1.6 Ghia, Carb and no Cat.
Although by 1985/86 most cars were already made to be able to run on unleaded.

I have to use a lead replacement additive in my 1975 Ford Capri.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
It was widely used when I was young . I also thought it was banned for automotive use . Do not know if it was banned for aviation gas ?

It is still used in aviation gasoline.Testing non lead fuel has been going on for a few years, but not yet certified for use.
 
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

OP, give us the Source of this (mis) information?

I say absolutely no for Automotive road use for decades.

MMT was in use for a while as an octane booster, but that was garbage, fouling plugs and lambda sensors.

A gas station near me sells 108 octane race gas for off road use. I would assume that has lead in it. But I might be wrong about that. Big Bucks. Usually 3x the cost of 87 no lead.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
OP, give us the source of this (mis) information?

Indeed. I smell a troll.

I understand the use of lead for aviation.
 
Originally Posted by TmanP
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?


It definitely is prohibited in street gas and has been for decades. Where did you see that - a very old pump or something? Race fuel would be my guess.
That makes the most sense. Their 87/89/93, etc. don't have lead but certain stations may elect to sell 110 leaded or some such thing - more common near racetracks or something.


It was listed in the MSDS regarding their Supreme Fuel 93 octane.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

OP, give us the Source of this (mis) information?

I say absolutely no for Automotive road use for decades.

MMT was in use for a while as an octane booster, but that was garbage, fouling plugs and lambda sensors.

A gas station near me sells 108 octane race gas for off road use. I would assume that has lead in it. But I might be wrong about that. Big Bucks. Usually 3x the cost of 87 no lead.


This was listed on the MSDS of their Supreme Fuel, 93 Octane.
 
I suppose I will be ditching Sunoco Gasoline. They are also off the Top Tier list.
 
Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

OP, give us the Source of this (mis) information?

I say absolutely no for Automotive road use for decades.

MMT was in use for a while as an octane booster, but that was garbage, fouling plugs and lambda sensors.

A gas station near me sells 108 octane race gas for off road use. I would assume that has lead in it. But I might be wrong about that. Big Bucks. Usually 3x the cost of 87 no lead.


This was listed on the MSDS of their Supreme Fuel, 93 Octane.


Sunoco's "Supreme" is a 112 octane leaded race fuel. Their lowest octane race fuel is a 95 octane unleaded called Optima.

The SDS I found for 93 octane, E10 Sunoco gasoline shows no TEL. https://hometowneenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/MSDS-Gasoline-93-Octane-10-Ethanol-2019.pdf
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

OP, give us the Source of this (mis) information?

I say absolutely no for Automotive road use for decades.

MMT was in use for a while as an octane booster, but that was garbage, fouling plugs and lambda sensors.

A gas station near me sells 108 octane race gas for off road use. I would assume that has lead in it. But I might be wrong about that. Big Bucks. Usually 3x the cost of 87 no lead.


This was listed on the MSDS of their Supreme Fuel, 93 Octane.


Sunoco's "Supreme" is a 112 octane leaded race fuel. Their lowest octane race fuel is a 95 octane unleaded called Optima.

The SDS I found for 93 octane, E10 Sunoco gasoline shows no TEL. https://hometowneenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/MSDS-Gasoline-93-Octane-10-Ethanol-2019.pdf

I found this. Not sure exactly what this means outside of California. I'm pretty sure it would violate EPA regs for on-road vehicles.

Quote
https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/SUNOCO-SUPREME_US-SDS_05Jan2017.pdf

Recommended Use Liquid: automotive refuelling
California Air Resources Board (CARB): This product cannot be sold, offered for sale,
supplied or offered for supply for motor vehicles in California except in competition racing vehicles. Not Legal For Use in Any Other Motor Vehicle.
 
Yeah, lead was banned for use in motor fuel for good reason - breathing in and touching lead ain't good for biological life forms!

If a guy wants higher performance from an engine such that higher octane is the only way left to get there, it's time to move to diesel or gas turbine that can combust at higher pressures without detonating.
 
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Yeah, lead was banned for use in motor fuel for good reason - breathing in and touching lead ain't good for biological life forms!

If a guy wants higher performance from an engine such that higher octane is the only way left to get there, it's time to move to diesel or gas turbine that can combust at higher pressures without detonating.

A lot of E85 FlexFuel engines have maximum performance on maximum E85. It will come at a hit to range and (depending on the cost) cost per mile. There's also the chance of there being less ethanol resulting in a lower octane rating and some differences based on the octane rating of the gasoline. E85 is supposed to have an AKI octane rating of maybe 102-105. Not only that, but we go through all these ways to boost the amount of oxygen via more valves and forced induction, but this is introducing oxygen that doesn't have to be compressed.
 
Originally Posted by Dave Sherman
Doesn't lead also poison catalytic converters and oxygen sensors?

Yes. But there are still race-only cars where they pull out the oxygen sensors and catalytic converters. I don't think it poisons the O2 sensors per se, but coats the surface. Something similar happens with large amounts of MMT. My understanding is that lead chemically deactivates the platinum catalyst.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by Dave Sherman
Doesn't lead also poison catalytic converters and oxygen sensors?

Yes. But there are still race-only cars where they pull out the oxygen sensors and catalytic converters. I don't think it poisons the O2 sensors per se, but coats the surface. Something similar happens with large amounts of MMT. My understanding is that lead chemically deactivates the platinum catalyst.

It will poison the cats and render the O2 sensors useless. MMT also coats spark plugs and increases the risk of misfires.

With that said, I think Motor Trend or Car & Driver back in the early 2000s drove a BMW E46 3 Series on 5 gallons of leaded race fuel to no detriment as an experiment but it was safe to say it won't be done again.
 
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?



Let's be specific here: The SDS is for "Leaded Racing Fuel."

You cannot make a broad statement like that and assume all of Sunoco's fuels are leaded.
 
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