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tetraethyl lead additive #5442853 05/31/20 12:40 AM
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painfx Offline OP
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Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5442854 05/31/20 12:44 AM
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WyrTwister Offline
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It was widely used when I was young . I also thought it was banned for automotive use . Do not know if it was banned for aviation gas ?


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Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5442856 05/31/20 12:46 AM
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TmanP Offline
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Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?


It definitely is prohibited in street gas and has been for decades. Where did you see that - a very old pump or something? Race fuel would be my guess.
That makes the most sense. Their 87/89/93, etc. don't have lead but certain stations may elect to sell 110 leaded or some such thing - more common near racetracks or something.


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Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5442873 05/31/20 02:11 AM
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FordCapriDriver Offline
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Here in Spain we had leaded fuel until IIRC 01/01/2003 is when it was officially banned.
Cats were only made mandatory in 1993, i had a 1992 Ford Escort 1.6 Ghia, Carb and no Cat.
Although by 1985/86 most cars were already made to be able to run on unleaded.

I have to use a lead replacement additive in my 1975 Ford Capri.

Last edited by FordCapriDriver; 05/31/20 02:13 AM.

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Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: WyrTwister] #5442923 05/31/20 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by WyrTwister
It was widely used when I was young . I also thought it was banned for automotive use . Do not know if it was banned for aviation gas ?

It is still used in aviation gasoline.Testing non lead fuel has been going on for a few years, but not yet certified for use.


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Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5443008 05/31/20 08:57 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

OP, give us the Source of this (mis) information?

I say absolutely no for Automotive road use for decades.

MMT was in use for a while as an octane booster, but that was garbage, fouling plugs and lambda sensors.

A gas station near me sells 108 octane race gas for off road use. I would assume that has lead in it. But I might be wrong about that. Big Bucks. Usually 3x the cost of 87 no lead.


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Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5443080 05/31/20 10:38 AM
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Kestas Offline
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
OP, give us the source of this (mis) information?

Indeed. I smell a troll.

I understand the use of lead for aviation.

Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5443376 05/31/20 04:55 PM
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y_p_w Offline
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There's low lead aviation gasoline. There's also leaded racing fuel.

https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/tech-article/race-fuel-101-lead-leaded-racing-fuels

Lead is still allowed for other applications including off-road recreational vehicles, construction equipment, marine engines, racing, etc. NASCAR switched to unleaded, but they had leaded for a few years after regulations banned it for on-road use.

Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: TmanP] #5446500 06/04/20 10:51 PM
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painfx Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TmanP
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?


It definitely is prohibited in street gas and has been for decades. Where did you see that - a very old pump or something? Race fuel would be my guess.
That makes the most sense. Their 87/89/93, etc. don't have lead but certain stations may elect to sell 110 leaded or some such thing - more common near racetracks or something.


It was listed in the MSDS regarding their Supreme Fuel 93 octane.

Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5446503 06/04/20 10:53 PM
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painfx Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

OP, give us the Source of this (mis) information?

I say absolutely no for Automotive road use for decades.

MMT was in use for a while as an octane booster, but that was garbage, fouling plugs and lambda sensors.

A gas station near me sells 108 octane race gas for off road use. I would assume that has lead in it. But I might be wrong about that. Big Bucks. Usually 3x the cost of 87 no lead.


This was listed on the MSDS of their Supreme Fuel, 93 Octane.

Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5446505 06/04/20 10:54 PM
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painfx Offline OP
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I suppose I will be ditching Sunoco Gasoline. They are also off the Top Tier list.

Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5448067 06/07/20 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

OP, give us the Source of this (mis) information?

I say absolutely no for Automotive road use for decades.

MMT was in use for a while as an octane booster, but that was garbage, fouling plugs and lambda sensors.

A gas station near me sells 108 octane race gas for off road use. I would assume that has lead in it. But I might be wrong about that. Big Bucks. Usually 3x the cost of 87 no lead.


This was listed on the MSDS of their Supreme Fuel, 93 Octane.


Sunoco’s “Supreme” is a 112 octane leaded race fuel. Their lowest octane race fuel is a 95 octane unleaded called Optima.

The SDS I found for 93 octane, E10 Sunoco gasoline shows no TEL. https://hometowneenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/MSDS-Gasoline-93-Octane-10-Ethanol-2019.pdf


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Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: Skippy722] #5448339 06/07/20 01:25 PM
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y_p_w Offline
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by painfx
Sunoco actually uses tetraethyl lead additive in their gasoline for anti-knock. It is used as an octane booster.

I thought lead was prohibited in gasoline?

OP, give us the Source of this (mis) information?

I say absolutely no for Automotive road use for decades.

MMT was in use for a while as an octane booster, but that was garbage, fouling plugs and lambda sensors.

A gas station near me sells 108 octane race gas for off road use. I would assume that has lead in it. But I might be wrong about that. Big Bucks. Usually 3x the cost of 87 no lead.


This was listed on the MSDS of their Supreme Fuel, 93 Octane.


Sunoco’s “Supreme” is a 112 octane leaded race fuel. Their lowest octane race fuel is a 95 octane unleaded called Optima.

The SDS I found for 93 octane, E10 Sunoco gasoline shows no TEL. https://hometowneenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/MSDS-Gasoline-93-Octane-10-Ethanol-2019.pdf

I found this. Not sure exactly what this means outside of California. I'm pretty sure it would violate EPA regs for on-road vehicles.

Quote
https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/SUNOCO-SUPREME_US-SDS_05Jan2017.pdf

Recommended Use Liquid: automotive refuelling
California Air Resources Board (CARB): This product cannot be sold, offered for sale,
supplied or offered for supply for motor vehicles in California except in competition racing vehicles. Not Legal For Use in Any Other Motor Vehicle.

Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: painfx] #5449031 06/08/20 01:00 PM
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Yeah, lead was banned for use in motor fuel for good reason - breathing in and touching lead ain't good for biological life forms!

If a guy wants higher performance from an engine such that higher octane is the only way left to get there, it's time to move to diesel or gas turbine that can combust at higher pressures without detonating.

Re: tetraethyl lead additive [Re: LubricatusObsess] #5449345 06/08/20 09:40 PM
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y_p_w Offline
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Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Yeah, lead was banned for use in motor fuel for good reason - breathing in and touching lead ain't good for biological life forms!

If a guy wants higher performance from an engine such that higher octane is the only way left to get there, it's time to move to diesel or gas turbine that can combust at higher pressures without detonating.

A lot of E85 FlexFuel engines have maximum performance on maximum E85. It will come at a hit to range and (depending on the cost) cost per mile. There's also the chance of there being less ethanol resulting in a lower octane rating and some differences based on the octane rating of the gasoline. E85 is supposed to have an AKI octane rating of maybe 102-105. Not only that, but we go through all these ways to boost the amount of oxygen via more valves and forced induction, but this is introducing oxygen that doesn't have to be compressed.

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