Recent Topics
Best refried beans?
by aquariuscsm - 07/03/20 12:16 PM
Northern hot cold pressure washer - clogged
by Donald - 07/03/20 10:48 AM
Porsche Transaxle Fluid Label
by wings&wheels - 07/03/20 08:52 AM
Ford 7.3 Godzilla Engine
by Snagglefoot - 07/03/20 08:43 AM
Growing Blackberries and Mulberries
by krismoriah72 - 07/03/20 07:50 AM
Yo! Starsky,
by RichR - 07/03/20 02:03 AM
Chinese air filters?
by Dogred08 - 07/03/20 01:18 AM
2006 Jetta TDI 5-speed with 324K miles in Florida
by atikovi - 07/02/20 10:51 PM
Rain X
by hardcore302 - 07/02/20 10:06 PM
K&N as for Trax MAF?
by hardcore302 - 07/02/20 09:46 PM
Auto Zone Delo 400 XLE 10w-30 1/2 off and rebate
by blupupher - 07/02/20 09:45 PM
RAM about to pass Silverado sales
by gfh77665 - 07/02/20 07:49 PM
Puffer Fish and Skate
by buster - 07/02/20 06:25 PM
Newest Members
ThaKid22, Speedeuphoria, 400rwkw, daveCarTruck, Jth383
71840 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
75 registered members (Baracoa, Atrocious, 1978elcamino, aquariuscsm, 2015_PSD, 2009Edge, 11 invisible), 2,185 guests, and 30 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics307,364
Posts5,309,841
Members71,840
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... #5442634 05/30/20 04:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
wemay Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
We finally have a euro oil that isn't "better" because of greater HT/HS (both are roughly 2.6). Making this, I believe, a fair comparison for discussion.

We've all read where EP is a fantastic oil because of composition (~70+% PAO) and stellar long drain intervals yet it has fewer approvals, and what many here consider, less stringent specs than the ESP X2 oil which is also highly regarded.

Both are long drain oils and POA based. Would you consider them to be on equal footing?

Regardless of what we drive, if possible to remove from equation.

Last edited by wemay; 05/30/20 05:10 PM.

19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: wemay] #5442643 05/30/20 05:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,536
T
Triple_Se7en Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,536
Depends on what we-all drive.
Your VW sees the ESP as a better fit. My GDI sees the low Calcium preference in Mobil-1 EP.

Our new Soul 2.0 MPI may benefit from either ESP, Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle or a similar Delo XSP in 5w30. No turbo or old-school GDI for the 2020 Kia Soul 2.0's


Stay Safe - Stay Healthy
Happy July 4th
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum // Mobil-1 EP // Valvoline Synthetics



Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5442645 05/30/20 05:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
wemay Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Depends on what we-all drive.
Your VW sees the ESP as a better fit. My GDI sees the low Calcium preference in Mobil-1 EP.

Our new Soul 2.0 MPI may benefit from either ESP, Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle or a similar Delo in 5w30. No turbo or old-school GDI for the 2020 Kia Soul 2.0's.


Hi Tripple. I edited after you posted, sorry.


19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: wemay] #5442646 05/30/20 05:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,536
T
Triple_Se7en Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 13,536
Great minds think alike.....lol
I edited after you posted.

I added the Delo label...... XSP


Stay Safe - Stay Healthy
Happy July 4th
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum // Mobil-1 EP // Valvoline Synthetics



Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: wemay] #5442652 05/30/20 05:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,863
sloinker Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,863
For the price of either of these oils it makes sense to me to spend slightly more for Ravenol or Red Line. Not dissin' the M1 but if you get on a sale from Jegs or Blauparts the prices are close and the test specs are equivalent or better last I checked.


'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Red Line 5W30 Euro
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI M1 ESP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Valvoline 5W20 Semi Synthetic
'64 Plymouth Fury440 Pending
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: sloinker] #5442664 05/30/20 05:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,167
4WD Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 13,167
And what will that do besides make you feel smart ?

Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: wemay] #5442667 05/30/20 05:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,459
B
buster Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,459
The ESP 0w20 is PAO, GTL and POE.
The M1 EP is PAO/AN.

From what I've seen with the ESP line, viscosity retention is very good. Some of the best Subaru WRX UOA's are from ESP 5w30.

The ESP 0w20 does meet the Porsche C20 spec, so it's definitely high quality.

https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html#

In a DI engine I think it's a great choice. However, for really long drains I'm not so sure.

Here is a VOA of this oil from 2018

VI 175
Moly 77
Boron 317
Mg 11
Ca 1,748
Oxidation 39.3 (ester)


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: wemay] #5442726 05/30/20 07:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,134
G
Gokhan Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,134
The main difference between the two is the ZDDP content. ACEA C5 requires a 700 ppm phosphorus minimum, whereas the non-Euro Mobil 1 0W-XX varieties (excluding high-mileage and racing) are for some reason (to decrease the coefficient of friction and improve the fuel economy?) skimpy on ZDPP with 650 ppm phosphorus. M1 ESP x2 0W-20 probably has 800 ppm phosphorus, which would be 23% higher than the non-Euro M1 0W-XX oils'.

The other difference is the VII content. M1 ESP x2 0W-20 has a lower VII content, which is typical of ACEA C5 0W-20 oils, which are more focused on reducing wear than improving the fuel economy. They also tend to have a thicker base oil but M1 ESP x2 0W-20 doesn't have a particularly thick base oil for a 0W-20.

However, M1 EP 0W-20 has a PAO base oil and probably more antioxidant, which should allow longer OCI's than M1 ESP x2 0W-20.

The final difference is in the lubricity base stock. Non-Euro M1 varieties use Group V alkylated naphthalene (AN) as the lubricity base stock, whereas Euro (ESP and FS) varieties use Group V polyol ester (POE). While POE cleans better than AN, which may perhaps be useful for the European passenger-car diesel engines, it increases the engine wear as it competes with the AW/EP/FM additives, but for the 5–7% POE content used in the Euro M1 oils, the effect is small.

Given the price and availability, I think to go with M1 EP 0W-20 is no-brainer.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: wemay] #5442728 05/30/20 07:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 34,378
D
demarpaint Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 34,378
Given the choice I'd run the ESP. I made the switch over to ESP over a year ago in two of my vehicles. From what I've read and heard "imo" it is a better product.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: sloinker] #5442733 05/30/20 07:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 837
J
Jackson_Slugger Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by sloinker
For the price of either of these oils it makes sense to me to spend slightly more for Ravenol or Red Line. Not dissin' the M1 but if you get on a sale from Jegs or Blauparts the prices are close and the test specs are equivalent or better last I checked.


Not slightly more, several times more. I like Ravenol but it's overkill and I've never failed to be underwhelmed by Redline UOA's, not that I put much stock in them. But paying more for higher metal wear doesn't seem to make much sense...

Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: Gokhan] #5442734 05/30/20 07:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,459
B
buster Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,459
Originally Posted by Gokhan
The main difference between the two is the ZDDP content. ACEA C5 requires a 700 ppm phosphorus minimum, whereas the non-Euro Mobil 1 0W-XX varieties (excluding high-mileage and racing) are for some reason (to decrease the coefficient of friction and improve the fuel economy?) skimpy on ZDPP with 650 ppm phosphorus. M1 ESP x2 0W-20 probably has 800 ppm phosphorus, which would be 23% higher than the non-Euro M1 0W-XX oils'.

The other difference is the VII content. M1 ESP x2 0W-20 has a lower VII content, which is typical of ACEA C5 0W-20 oils, which are more focused on reducing wear than improving the fuel economy. They also tend to have a thicker base oil but M1 ESP x2 0W-20 doesn't have a particularly thick base oil for a 0W-20.

However, M1 EP 0W-20 has a PAO base oil and probably more antioxidant, which should allow longer OCI's than M1 ESP x2 0W-20.

The final difference is in the lubricity base stock. Non-Euro M1 varieties use Group V alkylated naphthalene (AN) as the lubricity base stock, whereas Euro (ESP and FS) varieties use Group V polyol ester (POE). While POE cleans better than AN, which may perhaps be useful for the European passenger-car diesel engines, it increases the engine wear as it competes with the AW/EP/FM additives, but for the 5–7% POE content used in the Euro M1 oils, the effect is small.

Given the price and availability, I think to go with M1 EP 0W-20 is no-brainer.


Good information, thank you. thumbsup


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: Gokhan] #5442743 05/30/20 07:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
wemay Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
Originally Posted by Gokhan
The main difference between the two is the ZDDP content. ACEA C5 requires a 700 ppm phosphorus minimum, whereas the non-Euro Mobil 1 0W-XX varieties (excluding high-mileage and racing) are for some reason (to decrease the coefficient of friction and improve the fuel economy?) skimpy on ZDPP with 650 ppm phosphorus. M1 ESP x2 0W-20 probably has 800 ppm phosphorus, which would be 23% higher than the non-Euro M1 0W-XX oils'.

The other difference is the VII content. M1 ESP x2 0W-20 has a lower VII content, which is typical of ACEA C5 0W-20 oils, which are more focused on reducing wear than improving the fuel economy. They also tend to have a thicker base oil but M1 ESP x2 0W-20 doesn't have a particularly thick base oil for a 0W-20.

However, M1 EP 0W-20 has a PAO base oil and probably more antioxidant, which should allow longer OCI's than M1 ESP x2 0W-20.

The final difference is in the lubricity base stock. Non-Euro M1 varieties use Group V alkylated naphthalene (AN) as the lubricity base stock, whereas Euro (ESP and FS) varieties use Group V polyol ester (POE). While POE cleans better than AN, which may perhaps be useful for the European passenger-car diesel engines, it increases the engine wear as it competes with the AW/EP/FM additives, but for the 5–7% POE content used in the Euro M1 oils, the effect is small.

Given the price and availability, I think to go with M1 EP 0W-20 is no-brainer.


Thank you Gokhan...and buster. The explanation was easy to understand and makes sense. Today my "service" light went off (not the oil one but the inspection). So I took it in and realized it's just a way to get you into the dealership. Anyway, in the service bay, there was a gentleman who brought his own oil. It was M1 EP 0w20 for his GTi....they used it without hesitation. I didn't bring it up in conversation but the Tech did mouth..."great oil". That's what got me thinking.


19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: wemay] #5442745 05/30/20 07:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,459
B
buster Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,459
Here is a UOA in a Toyota 3.5 ran for almost 10k miles with 2.7% fuel. The ESP line maintains its viscosity very well.

https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic...y-35-v6-2gr-fks-posle-15500-km/#comments


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: buster] #5442778 05/30/20 08:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
wemay Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
Originally Posted by buster
Here is a UOA in a Toyota 3.5 ran for almost 10k miles with 2.7% fuel. The ESP line maintains its viscosity very well.

https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic...y-35-v6-2gr-fks-posle-15500-km/#comments


Excellent retention for sure. I've seen equally impressive UOA between them.


19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Re: Mobil1 EP 0W-20 and Mobil1 ESP X2 0W-20 for example... [Re: wemay] #5447313 06/05/20 10:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
wemay Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,508
...



19 Passat Wolfsburg TSi, Valvoline Euro 5W-40 - S11784XL
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T, GTX Magnatec 5W-30 - M1-104A
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™