logic behind no trans dipstick?

Originally Posted by demarpaint
The logic, pretty simple imo, some people will feel they have to take the vehicle back to the dealer to check the level and/or to have the unit serviced. That check won't be free, and it gives the dealership a shot at selling service, and parts. The automaker makes a little more money on each vehicle they make by leaving out the dipstick. Win win for the dealer and the automaker.


Yeah, it's basically to give the dealer some business because cars are way more reliable and they need to drum up some extra business somehow.
 
I haven't had a transmission dipstick in 15 years.

I just change the pan filter and refill. My current car has 219,000 miles. But my last car failed right at 189,000. It had a very pronounced lock up clutch issue for a couple of years before is let go, exactly 3 days after I sold it. Poor 5hp19. When the person I sold it to confronted me, it was an awkard conversation. I refunded his money and let him keep the car, even though he abused it.

To return to the topic, just keep an eye our for leaks. The transmission should never really need anything than other than a change in filter/fluid every 80K, and to make sure that it doesn't run low on fluid.
 
Originally Posted by supton
Most of the time I'd agree with you. But I'm reminded that most manual transmissions and perhaps all diffs lack a dipstick. ...
My Subaru had a dipstick for its manual transmission---and for the differential too, which shared the same oil.
 
Originally Posted by IMSA_Racing_Fan
Soon the engine dipstick and fill cap will disappear due to high longevity oils and "owners using unauthorized motor oil".


For BMW's, I believe they do NOT have a dipstick; rather they have an electronic oil level indicator (or perhaps a low oil level warning light???). They of course DO have a fill-cap.

I can't say I would be a fan of no engine oil dipstick...

A certain contingent / % of car owners... of the more expensive brands, particularly (and BMW is such a brand), simply do not identify with the notion of checking motor oil at interval, to notice trends, confirm adequacy of level, etc... and I expect BMW decided to employ that methodology to safeguard against them. But losing the engine oil dipstick (say, in addition to having the electronic level indication) - well, I abhor that notion.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
It's called "no logic". I find having no dipstick,drain plug,and fill tube to be completely asinine.

Most of the time I'd agree with you. But I'm reminded that most manual transmissions and perhaps all diffs lack a dipstick.

They lack a dipstick but they definitely have a way to check the level.

And as pointed out time and again, so do "sealed" transmissions. They may not be caveman simple, but they have means. I think a few "exotics" need a computer plugged in to do so (but I'm dubious that anyone who would object to sealed transmissions would be of the sort to own a vehicle of this type!) but the rest have a... plug that you pull to see if oil comes out. Actually, come to think of it, that's very much like how diff's are checked!

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by supton
Most of the time I'd agree with you. But I'm reminded that most manual transmissions and perhaps all diffs lack a dipstick. ...
My Subaru had a dipstick for its manual transmission---and for the differential too, which shared the same oil.

Ha! knew I'd be proven wrong on this somehow. I think my Saturn (and the wife's Civic?) may have had dipsticks for the transmissions, don't remember now. I still don't think it's common though.
 
I've changed a stickless Toyota and chevy so far. Go for a ride. Come back to the house and drive straight up on ramps leaving the engine running. Jack up the back so it's (mostly) level. Crawl underneath and open the top fill/level bolt. Engine running over your head, hot ATF and bolts in your hands. Yay. But.. I suspect that may be more accurate than the stick. Why they removed the stick. Because people don't pay attention to temperature and overfill. Using the bolt it would just pour out
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Originally Posted by JimPghPA
My understanding is that one of the big things that degrades fluids is exposure to air, and the very small amount of moisture that condenses out of the air and into the fluid. Over time that can add up to a lot of oxidation and moisture. When you have a dip-stick every time you go up or down a mountain, or the barometric pressure changes a small amount of air moves in or out of the air space above the fluid in your trany. When it moves in it carries new oxygen and water molecules (moisture). Some of that interacts. A sealed system does not have the fluid degrade anywhere near as fast.

I have seen some engineering specifications for some fluids and there useful life that specified different life expectancy for use in sealed and unsealed systems.


Even if a transmission is sealed, it still needs to be vented to allow for equalizing pressure differentials. Also, unless a transmission were completely filled with fluid or with a noble gas instead of air, condensation would still happen due to temperature fluctuations.


Sealed does not mean hermetically sealed but rather it means inaccessible.


GM had a patent in the 70s IIRC that used a balloon type membrane on the transmission vent to allow expansion without air exchange. I don't think it ever went into production.
 
Originally Posted by Chris142
Not having a dipstick or a dipstick and a tube saves the builder several dollars per car. Lets say $4.00 per car x 1000000 cars and you get a huge savings to send to investors instead.


$4.00 per car x 1000000 = $4 million total, a rounding error to car manufacturers and of no consequence to investors.

And yes, the manufacturer's view is that the tranny fluid should last a lifetime on some of these cars. Back in the day when my pop drove old beaters, the tranny fluid was never changed, usually they lasted well over 100K though some of them didn't have the smoothest shifting in the latter part of their lives, but they did last.
 
The question should be "what's the logic behind a transmission dipstick".

If your fluid level goes low, you are notified of the fact and then can repair the leak.

Doing an ATF change on these sealed units is quite easy as well.
 
I think the vast majority of owners are notified of transmission leaks by driveway puddles, not dipsticks...
 
Originally Posted by Astro14
I think the vast majority of owners are notified of transmission leaks by driveway puddles, not dipsticks...

And there is a large percentage of this majority who ignore the puddle until either something goes wrong or just as or more often it is ignored until the next time the vehicle is serviced. Surprising this does not mean transmission failure.
 
Originally Posted by flinter
Mr Nice,

But with NO dipstick, how do you know the service was ACTUALLY done??


ALL DEALERS are out to screw you...haven't you read that constantly on BITOG.....................

And those who post about positive dealer experiences are lying.......
 
IMHO they stopped putting dipstick when ATF was good enough to warranty for as long as car's warranty - after that it's customer's problem.
So, if ATF is good for 5 years and car's warranty is 5 years - no dipstick, cheaper to produce but looks good as ATF fill is now 'lifetime' per their claims....
 
Originally Posted by CKN

ALL DEALERS are out to screw you...haven't you read that constantly on BITOG.....................

And those who post about positive dealer experiences are lying.......


Mistrust and paranoia regarding dealers- another service provided by BITOG at no additional charge.
 
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by CKN

ALL DEALERS are out to screw you...haven't you read that constantly on BITOG.....................

And those who post about positive dealer experiences are lying.......


Mistrust and paranoia regarding dealers- another service provided by BITOG at no additional charge.



POST OF THE DAY!!!!
 
6 pages of answers. All good.
Of course I still don't get it.
It still seems to me that the top of the fluid is the top of the fluid.
 
Stick-less transmissions only work in favor of the auto maker if they fill the transmission correctly at the factory. It seems Ford's been under-filling some of the 10-speeds in the Mustang, and folks are bringing them back in droves with rough shifting issues. Ford doesn't factor in the cost involved with paying dealerships to drive them around to get them up to temp, then putting them on a lift to check fluid levels, only after spending time going through the lengthy diagnostic process. Something that should take 2 minutes to diagnose now takes a day.

Seems a dipstick would be very handy in this circumstance. Rough shifting? Let's have a quick look at your fluid, right here in the service drive. But no, their greed and desire to screw people post-warranty overrides logic.
 
Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
Stick-less transmissions only work in favor of the auto maker if they fill the transmission correctly at the factory. It seems Ford's been under-filling some of the 10-speeds in the Mustang, and folks are bringing them back in droves with rough shifting issues. Ford doesn't factor in the cost involved with paying dealerships to drive them around to get them up to temp, then putting them on a lift to check fluid levels, only after spending time going through the lengthy diagnostic process. Something that should take 2 minutes to diagnose now takes a day.

Seems a dipstick would be very handy in this circumstance. Rough shifting? Let's have a quick look at your fluid, right here in the service drive. But no, their greed and desire to screw people post-warranty overrides logic.

How would having a dip stick reduce time necessary to warm up the ATF?
 
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
Stick-less transmissions only work in favor of the auto maker if they fill the transmission correctly at the factory. It seems Ford's been under-filling some of the 10-speeds in the Mustang, and folks are bringing them back in droves with rough shifting issues. Ford doesn't factor in the cost involved with paying dealerships to drive them around to get them up to temp, then putting them on a lift to check fluid levels, only after spending time going through the lengthy diagnostic process. Something that should take 2 minutes to diagnose now takes a day.

Seems a dipstick would be very handy in this circumstance. Rough shifting? Let's have a quick look at your fluid, right here in the service drive. But no, their greed and desire to screw people post-warranty overrides logic.

How would having a dip stick reduce time necessary to warm up the ATF?


If you were able to check the transmission fluid when a customer drives into the service drive, it's already hot, and you know right away if it's low or discolored.

They took my Mustang, and let it sit on the back lot until a tech could be assigned to it, which required they take it through the warm-up steps prior to putting it on the lift. It took 24 hours for them to tell me the fluid was fine, and they were moving on to the valve body.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

O
No Engine Oil Dipstick
2 3 4
Replies
78
Views
5K
Vern_in_IL
U
2016 Volvo V60 - dealer put used oil back in the car
2 3 4
Replies
60
Views
2K
Krieg
N
Subraru CVT fluid fill procedure
Replies
10
Views
693
SubieRubyRoo
The Critic
Honda 6AT Fluid Level Caution
Replies
8
Views
773
supton
NibbanaBanana
E350 Trans Dipstick Rusted in Filler Tube
Replies
4
Views
1K
NibbanaBanana
Back
Top