Oil Additives for GDI engines

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Might there be a market for oil additives that can help reduce carbon on intake valves? Since its the oily vapors that get sucked through the PCV system that bake onto the valves, if one were to use an oil additive that had high cleaning ability, could that potentially clean and prevent intake valve deposits?!? Just thinking hypothetically!

Specifically I'm looking at using Risolone engine treatment (in the oil) in my 2016 CX-5.

What other engine oil additives would work best to help prevent intake valve deposits and potentially actually clean them??

I sent an email to Rislone, will report back.

Thanks!
 
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
None.

Low SAPS oils slow the formation of deposits on the valves.


Agree! I would keep PEA based fuel additives around and low ethanol content fuel. The most harm is done by short trips,cold weather and not getting up to operating temperature which can take 20 miles/minutes.
 
Originally Posted by Marco620
I would keep PEA based fuel additives around and low ethanol content fuel.

What does ethanol have to do with valve deposits on GDI engines?
 
Not that I'm aware of but here are the suggested things you can do to help mitigate intake valve deposits (opinions may vary):

Use an oil that is highly resistant to oxidation.
Avoid short trips as much as possible.
Take long highway trips periodically and get the engine hot. It's been found that high heat helps burn off and prevent IVD's.

Low Noack and lower SAPS are commonly suggested, however, that may not be the case.

I'm using Mobil 1 EP right now - PAO/AN, Noack 10%, SA .8.
I have some AP which is PAO/AN, Noack 8.9%, SA .8.

High Performance Lubricants (site sponsor) makes really good oils and they claim: "Formulated with specifically chosen esters which helps to minimize intake valve deposits, maintain a clean engine and maintain elastomer compatibility."

In time I will be using them.

https://www.advlubrication.com/collections/automotive-lubricants/products/passenger-car-motor-oil
 
SAVAGEGEESE:
How is carbon build up managed and additional blow created from turbo associated with DI?

DAVE COLEMAN:
Carbon buildup on DI intake valves has two contributors. The oil itself getting on the valves, and the valves being at a temperature that promotes the formation of hard deposits.

We've dramatically reduced the oil in the intake stream compared to our last DI Turbo through several measures. First, oil blowing past turbo seals directly into the intake stream has been reduced with better turbo oil seals and lower oil pressure in the turbo itself. Actual blow-by has been reduced across the board with SKYACTIV engines by improving the roundness of the cylinder bores through improved analysis of casting, machining and assembly stresses that can slightly warp the bores. Taking this into account in the design process has given us much better blow-by performance.

Finally, the realization of the sensitivity to intake valve temperature has allowed us to design the cylinder head structure, cooling system and calibration to manage intake valve temperatures to prevent carbon buildup.

To eliminate the problem of intake valve deposits that plague current direct gasoline injection engines, the engineers at Mazda determined that deposits are formed when intake valve temperatures fall below 400 degrees C. Measures were taken so that the intake valve would operate above this point to reduce deposit formation.

One of the biggest issues with direct injection engines is a build up of deposits on the intake valve. Mazda determined that this was largely due to the intake valve being too cool. A lot of analysis went into designing the heat paths away from the valves to keep them at the proper temperature to avoid deposit formation.
 
maybe induced methanol in the airbox/turbo compressor path is a cheap way to help.
 
Originally Posted by buster
Not that I'm aware of but here are the suggested things you can do to help mitigate intake valve deposits (opinions may vary):

Use an oil that is highly resistant to oxidation.
Avoid short trips as much as possible.
Take long highway trips periodically and get the engine hot. It's been found that high heat helps burn off and prevent IVD's.

Low Noack and lower SAPS are commonly suggested, however, that may not be the case.

I'm using Mobil 1 EP right now - PAO/AN, Noack 10%, SA .8.
I have some AP which is PAO/AN, Noack 8.9%, SA .8.

High Performance Lubricants (site sponsor) makes really good oils and they claim: "Formulated with specifically chosen esters which helps to minimize intake valve deposits, maintain a clean engine and maintain elastomer compatibility."

In time I will be using them.

https://www.advlubrication.com/collections/automotive-lubricants/products/passenger-car-motor-oil


I would like to try this one in my Golf, but can't find PDS or VOA anywhere.

[Linked Image]





HP.jpg
 
Originally Posted by Marco620
Originally Posted by Rand
Originally Posted by Marco620
I would keep PEA based fuel additives around and low ethanol content fuel.

What does ethanol have to do with valve deposits on GDI engines?



https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/ask-an-engineer-gdi-problems-in-a-nutshell/


I read some articles online that ethanol contributes to corrosion and is also problematic in IVD's.
Whether it's true or not I don't know.
I've been using clear gas (ethanol free) since I bought my Golf and hoping for the best.
 
Originally Posted by Marco620
Originally Posted by Rand
Originally Posted by Marco620
I would keep PEA based fuel additives around and low ethanol content fuel.

What does ethanol have to do with valve deposits on GDI engines?



https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/ask-an-engineer-gdi-problems-in-a-nutshell/

This 8 year old article you reference says nothing about ethanol contributing to IVD. It talks about corrosion. Ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline anyway.

I think engineers know more now.
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
maybe induced methanol in the airbox/turbo compressor path is a cheap way to help.


Did Saab play with methanol in their cars in the 80s??
 
Originally Posted by LotI
Originally Posted by Marco620
Originally Posted by Rand
Originally Posted by Marco620
I would keep PEA based fuel additives around and low ethanol content fuel.

What does ethanol have to do with valve deposits on GDI engines?



https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/05/ask-an-engineer-gdi-problems-in-a-nutshell/

This 8 year old article you reference says nothing about ethanol contributing to IVD. It talks about corrosion. Ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline anyway.

I think engineers know more now.


Ethanol can't burn cleaner as it has more voc than regular gasoline. If it burns cleaner it's because it does not completely burn and leaves behind a nasty residue. Let's also mention all the procedures going into making it. Not a reliable source, great for hand sanitizer though.
 
Originally Posted by Drew99GT
Might there be a market for oil additives that can help reduce carbon on intake valves? Since its the oily vapors that get sucked through the PCV system that bake onto the valves, if one were to use an oil additive that had high cleaning ability, could that potentially clean and prevent intake valve deposits?!? Just thinking hypothetically!


Wasn't "Valvoline Modern Engine" oil designed specifically to address that issue?
 
10% Ethanol in gasoline has one benefit : It is a great fuel injector cleaner .(that's it though as far as I know) .
 
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
Originally Posted by Drew99GT
Might there be a market for oil additives that can help reduce carbon on intake valves? Since its the oily vapors that get sucked through the PCV system that bake onto the valves, if one were to use an oil additive that had high cleaning ability, could that potentially clean and prevent intake valve deposits?!? Just thinking hypothetically!


Wasn't "Valvoline Modern Engine" oil designed specifically to address that issue?


They claim it does. All I could find out about that oil was that it contains some unique detergent to help resist deposit formation. Whatever they are using does not show up on a VOA.
 
Originally Posted by Marco620
Ethanol can't burn cleaner as it has more voc than regular gasoline. If it burns cleaner it's because it does not completely burn and leaves behind a nasty residue. Let's also mention all the procedures going into making it. Not a reliable source, great for hand sanitizer though.

What a load of nonsense, I'm not a fan of EtOH in gasoline but it's all we can buy here in this EPA nonattainment area and EtOH blended gasoline has not been a problem.

This subject brings the silliest stuff out of the woodwork.
 
Originally Posted by buster
SAVAGEGEESE:
How is carbon build up managed and additional blow created from turbo associated with DI?

DAVE COLEMAN:
Carbon buildup on DI intake valves has two contributors. The oil itself getting on the valves, and the valves being at a temperature that promotes the formation of hard deposits.

We've dramatically reduced the oil in the intake stream compared to our last DI Turbo through several measures. First, oil blowing past turbo seals directly into the intake stream has been reduced with better turbo oil seals and lower oil pressure in the turbo itself. Actual blow-by has been reduced across the board with SKYACTIV engines by improving the roundness of the cylinder bores through improved analysis of casting, machining and assembly stresses that can slightly warp the bores. Taking this into account in the design process has given us much better blow-by performance.

Finally, the realization of the sensitivity to intake valve temperature has allowed us to design the cylinder head structure, cooling system and calibration to manage intake valve temperatures to prevent carbon buildup.

To eliminate the problem of intake valve deposits that plague current direct gasoline injection engines, the engineers at Mazda determined that deposits are formed when intake valve temperatures fall below 400 degrees C. Measures were taken so that the intake valve would operate above this point to reduce deposit formation.

One of the biggest issues with direct injection engines is a build up of deposits on the intake valve. Mazda determined that this was largely due to the intake valve being too cool. A lot of analysis went into designing the heat paths away from the valves to keep them at the proper temperature to avoid deposit formation.


This might explain why I never had issues in my Hyundai. Took on long drives and got hot. Good read/info.
 
Originally Posted by Marco620


Ethanol can't burn cleaner as it has more voc than regular gasoline. If it burns cleaner it's because it does not completely burn and leaves behind a nasty residue. Let's also mention all the procedures going into making it. Not a reliable source, great for hand sanitizer though.



I have a 94 neat ethanol car that has seen E100 for 26 years and there is no sign of that "nasty residue" you are talking about. Nor does the original fuel injector ( only one for four cil.) shows any signs of corrosion or deposits.

I also pull the plugs this week to check them, and after 8K and 2 years they look like this:

[Linked Image]
 
Leo
Our area 10% Ethanol is more of an issue with TGDI / GDI motors. A couple articles /write-ups feel ethanol slightly increase carbon in these engines.

Here in Michigan, it's no longer mandatory to have an ethanol sticker on gas pumps using ethanol. So I've been sticking with Shell gas, only because I've never seen a Shell 87-89-93 octane pump around, that stickers Ethanol at/near the gas pump handles.
 
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