Shotgun ammo question

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Dec 27, 2011
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20 Ga 18 inch barrel

Looking for apartment home defense very short range. 15-20 feet.

Choices

I was using 9 pellet of Rio #1 Buck advertised at 1345 FPS

Since then 2 new rounds are out:
10 pellets #0 Buck advertised at 1150 FPS
8 pellets of #00 Buck advertised at 1200 FPS

My observations. Rio seems to have a bit more kick but the least total weight if I'm correct at 360 grain. Does weight matter?

I have tried the Fed 3 inch Mag 18 pellet #3 buck but its really too much kick.
From all I've read the 4 buck just does not seem to always have the penetration needed.
 
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Originally Posted by clarkflower


very short range. 15-20 feet.

the 4 buck just does not seem to always have the penetration needed.


At that range, unless the target is wearing level III armor with trauma plates, any selection will be lethal and penetration isn't going to be an issue for any soft target unless you have to fire through an obstruction- if that's the case wait till you have a clear shot
 
Yes, more weight = more kick if you drive to loads at similar velocity. Either of those lower velocity rounds should perform fine, and kick less.
If you're worried about too little penetration, follow up with a slug. Just remember, walls are thin and won't stop a slug.

Don't forget to get a pattern at your intended shooting distance. You may not see any spread at all @ 15'.
 
Originally Posted by JohnG
Yes, more weight = more kick if you drive to loads at similar velocity. Either of those lower velocity rounds should perform fine, and kick less.
If you're worried about too little penetration, follow up with a slug. Just remember, walls are thin and won't stop a slug.

Don't forget to get a pattern at your intended shooting distance. You may not see any spread at all @ 15'.


Thanks...
Glad you brought it up. At 17 the Rio spread was like a big softball to vollyball size.
When I first shot the 00, the spread was medicine ball size.
Then they had a "new improved OO round" (The 10 pellets #0 Buck advertised at 1150 FPS) and its baseball size. When I took it apart its a 0 buck not a 00. The old round was 00

In some ways I like the big spread for eye opening 1st shot at 3 am.

I don't think I can shoot a slug (but they do have a 58 ga ball with 4 #4 buck)
 
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at practical and lawful in home defensive uses any 20ga should be effective. my own choice is #5 gameshot in a h&r 20" 20ga single shot. with its automatic ejection of spent rounds i can run it fast. with an added recoil pad it is quite ok on the shoulder. lots of utube videos helped me choose game or bird shot confidently, here are two:

https://youtu.be/f8EL9MXY2S4

https://youtu.be/TwXiQvKwcVs
 
Originally Posted by jstert
at practical and lawful in home defensive uses any 20ga should be effective. my own choice is #5 gameshot in a h&r 20" 20ga single shot. with its automatic ejection of spent rounds i can run it fast. with an added recoil pad it is quite ok on the shoulder. lots of utube videos helped me choose game or bird shot confidently, here are two:

https://youtu.be/f8EL9MXY2S4

https://youtu.be/TwXiQvKwcVs

You must be incredibly skilled to run a single shot shotgun fast in the middle of the night after just being awaken.
 
Everything I have been reading says #1 shot is the "best" for self defense.
Good shot size, increased # of pellets over #0 or #00, good velocity and penetration.

How long are the 9 shot #1? I have some 2 3/4" #1 shot 12 pellet as my home defense round.

Edit: Oops, just saw it is a 20 gauge, that would account for the lower shot count (mine is a 12 gauge).
 
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Different thought

you want shotgun stopping power for self defense only and don't want to worry about stray shots going through walls and maybe the need for a follow up shot

Buy a Judge
 
Originally Posted by blupupher
Everything I have been reading says #1 shot is the "best" for self defense.
Good shot size, increased # of pellets over #0 or #00, good velocity and penetration.

How long are the 9 shot #1? I have some 2 3/4" #1 shot 12 pellet as my home defense round.

Edit: Oops, just saw it is a 20 gauge, that would account for the lower shot count (mine is a 12 gauge).



I've read the same (best) though I don't really get it as OO goes further in gel.

I still like it that I feel more punch than the 0 and 00 buck.

Edit -add Also its cheap vs 2 bucks a round in the 0 sizes
 
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Stacking efficiency for 20 gauge is different than 12 gauge. Personally I'm ok with anything from #4 buck on up. Even with #4 buck you're hitting a guy with 24 .25" pellets moving at 1100fps all at once. Ain't nobody gonna shrug that off. They might not die, but they gonna know they been shot.

Generally for picking shotgun ammo for defensive purposes I pay more attention to recoil and ability to get follow up shots quickly. You can miss with a shotgun, especially at ‘across the room' distances.

You also can't ignore shotgun shot's ability to penetrate through common building materials. Those lead pellets will go though more drywall than many people think.
Link to drywall penetration with 12ga #4: https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/

BSW
 
> I pay more attention to recoil and ability to get follow up shots quickly.

I get that. That's why no 18# 3 buck in that federal magnum 3 inch load. I thought it broke my index finger.

Is the quantity of 20 odd 4 buck better than the 10 0
buck?

The way I'm set up I don't see going through a (side) wall as an issue.
 
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Originally Posted by Inspecktor
Paul Harrell on youtube has many videos on shotguns and loads for home defense.




Thanks!
 
I'm thinking of that, and even having the biggest spread 1st and 2nd, then tightening up.
 
Originally Posted by HangFire
I would pattern 3 of each at your intended range, and pick the one with the spread and pattern you like most.


I agree that it's vital to know how your shot patterns with your ammo at your typical ranges.

Bsw
 
I concur with the recent posts, at the point blank ranges you are talking about even bird shot will be devastating, BB's up to number 4s. Any flyers won't go far either.
 
As many of the responses here have acknowledged, there are a lot of factors. Some other ideas that come to mind, not things to necessarily answer here, just things to think about --

The recognition that once you squeeze the trigger you are responsible for the round, wherever it ends up, informs all of this.

1) What are you defending against? Are we talking about low to moderately motivated random criminal behavior by amateurs with bad judgement, somebody full of PCP who can absorb tremendous damage and keep coming, professional thieves who aren't necessarily looking for engagement, professional bad guys who are targeting you personally and know what they are doing, a vague feeling on the basis of limited evidence that something bad might happen and you aren't entirely prepared, or three apartments in your building were hit this week, two while the people were home? Are your personal circumstances such that there are -- or are not -- additional means of defense?

2) What is the layout of your building? Do you have a good chance of a clear shot at a reasonable distance without endangering innocent people? What could it look like when you are awake and home compared to being awakened from sleep? What do your sight lines look like and what is the backstop behind an intruder?

3) Are there other people in the apartment? Do you have kids? Are you reasonably confident that you could be awakened from a sound sleep and have the necessary control in an engagement to not make an irreversible mistake?

4) From the moment an attack is initiated to the time the assailant is too close for you to get a shot, how much time do you think you have?

Of course there are more, these are just ideas that come to mind based upon your scenario. We all have our own priorities, experiences, skills, and abilities, and we all reach our own conclusions. I think what ABN_CBT_ENGR has written here is worth taking under thoughtful consideration -- I did some unscientific tests with a short 20 gauge on different construction materials and found that the only load that would not penetrate two layers of 1/2" drywall on a wood-frame uninsulated interior wall was a #9 birdshot.

Would a leather jacket stop this? Maybe. Would being hit in the face with a couple of rounds of it break your focus? Maybe. Would it change the balance in the subsequent engagement? Probably.

Do I want to discover that my neighbor across the hall who heard something and was coming out to see what was going on took a couple of pellets of 00 from a 3" magnum load? Probably not.

Another factor is those rounds with the impressive numbers come with serious recoil, this does slow down your target acquisition for subsequent shots. After trying the low-recoil rounds I wouldn't use anything else in the scenario you describe, the second and third shot happen much faster and more accurately.

Just a few more thoughts, no expertise being claimed here.
 
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