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2-stroke oils #5434789 05/21/20 05:55 AM
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super_koza Offline OP
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Hi there!

I need some help with choosing the optimal oir for my Vespa Primavera 50.
The user manual requires oils which comply with API TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD specifications and recommends Eni i-Ride PG 2T oil.
This Eni might be fully synthetic or semi-synthetic, I am not sure.
However, it doesn't seem to be available anymore, and Eni website recommends Eni i-Ride scooter 2T (semi-synthetic) and Eni i-Ride racing 2T (fully synthetic).
QUESTION 1: Given the oils comply with the same standards, does it make any difference whether it is semi-synthetic or fully synthetic?

Lets focus on Motul oils, since they are easiest to obtain where I live:
  • 510 2T (API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, semi-synthetic)
  • 710 2T (API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, fully synthetic)
  • SCOOTER EXPERT 2T (API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, semi-synthetic)
  • SCOOTER POWER 2T (API TC, JASO FD, ISO-L-EGD, fully synthetic)


They all seem to comply with the same standards, yet there is a distinct classification between scooter oils and "regular oils".
QUESTION 2: Given the oils comply with the same standards, does it make any difference whether it is "scooter" oil or not?

QUESTION 3: I have heard that fully synthetic oils should be used only with engines that are tuned and run at high rpms (11000). Semi-synthetic should be used with engines that are not tuned. Is this true, because it doesn't make any sense for me...

Thanks a lot! laugh

Last edited by super_koza; 05/21/20 05:57 AM.
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5434799 05/21/20 06:25 AM
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CT8 Offline
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What does the owners manual recommend?


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5434844 05/21/20 07:26 AM
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krismoriah72 Offline
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JASO FD


does it make any difference whether it is semi-synthetic or fully synthetic?

Find a good brand name oil that is easy to find and budget friendly with the JASO FD spec and stick with that.

Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5434848 05/21/20 07:29 AM
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Warlord Offline
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Often manufacturers will use the same formulation in many different bottles to appeal to different segments of the market. The scooter oil may not be much different if at all from the 710 or 510. You can use full synthetic oil in any engine as long as it meets the required specifications. If it were me I’d use the 710 or scooter power.


81 Ford 1100 - daily driver
07 GMC Canyon - 245000 km
08 Honda CRF230L - 5000 km
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: Warlord] #5434855 05/21/20 07:46 AM
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super_koza Offline OP
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Originally Posted by CT8
What does the owners manual recommend?


It recommends: API TC, JASO FC, ISO-L-EGD

https://i.imgur.com/VAkdAXd.png

Originally Posted by krismoriah72

Find a good brand name oil that is easy to find and budget friendly with the JASO FD spec and stick with that.


I tend to agree. FD is the same as FC, just with better detergent properties. Can't harm it the components are cleaner, even though the engine might not care about that.

Originally Posted by Warlord
Often manufacturers will use the same formulation in many different bottles to appeal to different segments of the market. The scooter oil may not be much different if at all from the 710 or 510. You can use full synthetic oil in any engine as long as it meets the required specifications. If it were me I’d use the 710 or scooter power.


Thanks! This is what I expected.
As I consume 2-3 liters per season, the price difference is not worth some eventual problems, that might occur due to lower quality oil.

I would still like to know whether there is any difference between the synthetic and semi-synthetic oils if they satisfy the same specifications.
My logic says it shouldn't matter, because ISO-L-EGD tests for piston cleanliness too. I hope someone with expert knowledge answers this... smile

Thanks everyone!

Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5434856 05/21/20 07:46 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Here is the current JASO licensing list. Not all licensed oils are on this list but everything on the list is licensed.

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf

All licensed oils will use this method of displaying the license:

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_2018_EV1912.pdf

Forget the base stock composition and focus on the proper license.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5434921 05/21/20 09:17 AM
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super_koza Offline OP
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@kschachn
So according to this, any of the Motul oils would do the job just fine and I shouldn't care whether it is synthetic or semi?

Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5434963 05/21/20 09:54 AM
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Cujet Offline
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Originally Posted by super_koza

QUESTION 1: Given the oils comply with the same standards, does it make any difference whether it is semi-synthetic or fully synthetic?

QUESTION 2: Given the oils comply with the same standards, does it make any difference whether it is "scooter" oil or not?

QUESTION 3: I have heard that fully synthetic oils should be used only with engines that are tuned and run at high rpms ...


1) It really won't matter. It's good to know that one of the very best "general purpose" two stroke oils ever made is a Penzoil petroleum product, not a synthetic. (see link below)

2) Not a bit. Scooters don't have an unusual duty cycle and don't need any special needs beyond the EG-D specifications.

3) Synthetic oils tend to have the promise of better quality and better characteristics. However, as those of us who "love" 2 stroke engines know, that may or may not be true. It depends on the oil, the engine loads and temperatures and a number of other factors.

Sufficient octane to eliminate any risk of detonation is a must. Sufficient oil quantity is a must. Under a load, 100 to 1 will increase wear rates, period, end of story. Proper ignition timing is also required. Probably the easiest "ultra critical" thing to control is proper jetting. We tend to look to oils to fix problems. But the reality is that a properly configured engine will have a long operational life regardless of oil choice (among quality oils) .

When we raced 2 stroke SeaDoo's, the engines were modified and operated far beyond their original HP outputs and RPM limits. Wear was always a factor, especially the exhaust side of the piston rings. Oil choice made little difference here. Among identical engines, the operators choice of oils varied but lifespan really did not. Whether it was the SeaDoo synthetic or Redline Racing oil, or even Golden Spectro! Not much difference.

What does make a difference is oil ratio. 32 to 1 provides all the protection possible in normal conditions. As less oil is used, wear rates increased.


http://www.ultralightnews.com/features/oiltest.htm

Last edited by Cujet; 05/21/20 09:54 AM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5435030 05/21/20 11:07 AM
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Kamele0N Offline
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1) since vespas are aircooled....I would choose synthetic oil..

Motul 710 and scooter power look identical to me on a PDS paper....

Are you sure that Motul is easiest to obtain then lets, say OMV 2T-S? <----- its, a, decent (racing) oil!


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Tech9 (Shell?) 5W30 C3 VW 504/507
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10W-40
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5435560 05/22/20 01:05 AM
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Silk Offline
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Piaggio (they make Vespa) recommend FD only for my Zip 50...it has a Cat. I usually use FD, but have used FC and FB without problems. Your Primavera 2T will probably have a Cat too, so stick to FD...less smoke, less oil in the Cat.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite VTwin 20-50
2005 Nissan Expert - 5W-30 Castrol Edge
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5435576 05/22/20 03:18 AM
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tundraotto Offline
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Is the vespa premix or oil injection?

Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: krismoriah72] #5435830 05/22/20 12:01 PM
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Jetronic Offline
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Originally Posted by krismoriah72
JASO FD


does it make any difference whether it is semi-synthetic or fully synthetic?

Find a good brand name oil that is easy to find and budget friendly with the JASO FD spec and stick with that.



It can matter. PIB counts as synthetic, and is used as an oil substitute to reduce smoking. However, full PIB as base stock doesn't protect as well, according to a Yamaha study i came across.


AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 235/45R17
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: Cujet] #5436577 05/23/20 08:52 AM
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Rick_A Offline
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A question for Cujet.
Some of the oils for premix vs injection are very thick. Does the viscosity of the oil have any affect on the oil ratio to use?

Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5436634 05/23/20 10:12 AM
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Jetronic Offline
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Yes. The thinner oils contain a solvent to promote mixing and that won't help any with lubrication.


AR Giulietta 2.0 JTDM-2 -- Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0w30
Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 235/45R17
Re: 2-stroke oils [Re: super_koza] #5436833 05/23/20 04:31 PM
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Kamele0N Offline
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Oils intended for injection are usually between sae30-sae40 viscosity grade...

Like 8cst-14cst @100C (212F)...

Anything "higher" is for premix only...


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Tech9 (Shell?) 5W30 C3 VW 504/507
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10W-40
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