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PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS #5432274 05/18/20 11:08 AM
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buster Offline OP
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Platinum is still maintaining 50% cleaner pistons compared to industry standard (IIIH) test, which is excellent. What's interesting is the 0w20 has a VI of 182. Quite high.

I'm curious what gives PP the ability to keep the level of cleanliness they claim. They oversell GTL so much (plastered on everything to no end) not much else is known about their oils. And they were never a big on posting Noack based on the Q&A due to poor repeatability of the test itself.

PP 0w20 PDS

Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: buster] #5432320 05/18/20 12:16 PM
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I use PP with no complaints. But, what does "up to" 50% cleaner mean? If the pistons are 4% cleaner, that would be included in "up to 50%".

Also that claim is "Based on ILSACGF-6A and Sequence III H piston deposit test using SAE5W-30." Their engineers and lawyers must believe that the cleaning components in 5w30 are similar enough to those in 0W20 to make these assertions?

Just asking. It seems similar to oil filter companies making broad claims based on testing of one model of filter.

Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: buster] #5432321 05/18/20 12:17 PM
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Gokhan Offline
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They have changed the formulation of the Pennzoil Platinum for API SP after all.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: buster] #5432685 05/18/20 06:28 PM
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They seem to have thinned the base oil, increased the VII content, and decreased the HTHS by 0.1 cP.

Note: I estimated the HTHS indirectly by relying on some assumptions as the HTHS is not provided in the PDS's. (I adjusted the HTHS until the BO VI is the same for both the SN PLUS and SP versions and points to a GTL base oil, with the caveat that the BO VI cannot be reliably calculated with a simple formula.)

The fuel-economy criteria are a lot stricter in SP/GF-6 than in SN (PLUS)/GF-5, and we are seeing many blenders decreasing the HTHS and increasing the viscosity index (VI) to be able to safely pass the new fuel-economy tests. Hopefully the improved detergent–dispersant–inhibitor (DDI) packages in SP/GF-6 are keeping the engine wear low.

Automated calculator for the A_Harman index, VII content, and base-oil viscosity


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: Gokhan] #5432736 05/18/20 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
They seem to have thinned the base oil, increased the VII content, and decreased the HTHS by 0.1 cP.
...
The fuel-economy criteria are a lot stricter in SP/GF-6 than in SN (PLUS)/GF-5, and we are seeing many blenders decreasing the HTHS and increasing the viscosity index (VI) to be able to safely pass the new fuel-economy tests. Hopefully the improved detergent–dispersant–inhibitor (DDI) packages in SP/GF-6 are keeping the engine wear low. ...
In other words, following the lead of earlier Japanese-style 0W-XX fuel-economy oils?


2011 Toyota Prius now at 110K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
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Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: buster] #5432753 05/18/20 07:25 PM
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Quote
Hopefully the improved detergent–dispersant–inhibitor (DDI) packages in SP/GF-6 are keeping the engine wear low.


thumbsup

Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: Gokhan] #5432789 05/18/20 08:03 PM
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Gokhan - do you know if we're all going to be forced into SP as gasoline engine only motor oil choice? I mean, I don't get why they're chasing 0.0001% fuel economy increase with engine oil reformulations? Because they can? Have nothing better to do?


Elastohydrodynamic Lubrication makes the world go 'round!
2017 Ram 2500 - PUP 0W-40, Fram XG
2011 Chev Traverse - PUP 5W-30, Fram XG
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Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: LubricatusObsess] #5432825 05/18/20 08:50 PM
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Gokhan Offline
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Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Gokhan - do you know if we're all going to be forced into SP as gasoline engine only motor oil choice? I mean, I don't get why they're chasing 0.0001% fuel economy increase with engine oil reformulations? Because they can? Have nothing better to do?

SP has other advantages, too, like more strict deposit control, slower oxidation, etc. Moreover, at least Idemitsu has made its SP oils thicker than their SN versions.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: buster] #5432833 05/18/20 09:04 PM
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SP is the natural progression just like SL and SN before it. Oils are getting better and better.


2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: buster] #5432841 05/18/20 09:15 PM
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buster Offline OP
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^true. cheers

Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: Gokhan] #5432856 05/18/20 09:32 PM
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4WD Online Confused
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They are claiming better timing chain protection … not sure how they got there …

Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: 4WD] #5432917 05/18/20 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 4WD
They are claiming better timing chain protection … not sure how they got there …

I think It's mainly by better dispersants to keep the abrasive soot particulates produced from direct injection apart so that they don't stick together and grow, inflicting higher wear.

Characterisation of soot in oil from a gasoline direct-injection engine using TEM

"The particle number concentration emitted by GDI engines are generally higher than conventional PFI engines and Diesel engines equipped with Particulate Filter (DPF). Most of the soot produced is expelled from the cylinder with the exhaust gases but a small proportion is transferred from the cylinder to the lubricating oil. Soot is likely to migrate into the oil film early during the expansion stroke [8]; consequently, the morphology, agglomeration and other characteristics of soot-in-oil are likely to be rather different to exhaust soot. Soot-in-oil has not been subject to oxidation processes to the same extent and hence the outer shell structure is more likely to remain intact. Although only a small proportion of the soot formed in the combustion chamber transfers to the engine oil, it contributes to the lubricant degradation. This is certainly a new challenge for the modern GDI engine as soot-in-oil raises concerns upon wear and engine durability. It is well established that oil thickening has a complex dependence on soot [9]. Various investigators [10], [11] have shown that diesel soot build up in oil gives rise to increased engine wear rates; Gautam et al. [12] reported that wear increases with higher soot concentration. Soot reduces the effectiveness of anti-wear additives and its effect on wear depends upon the characteristics of the particles and agglomerates of soot. Abrasive wear occurs and wear scar width closely matches the primary particle size [10]. Oil thickening was found to enhance timing chain elongation due to abrasive action of soot on pins and bushing [13]. Bardasz et al. [14] studied the influence of high number of engine cycles on lubricant oil and that of oil characteristics on engine wear, comparing direct injection and port fuel injection engines and finding increased wear for the first category. There is also a growing interest within the automotive industry to better understand the complex interactions between soot morphology and properties of lubricating oil."

The reason for the soot formation in direct-injection engines is the presence of liquid fuel in the cylinders, but the actual mechanism is fairly complicated and not completely understood,

Soot formation in direct-injection spark-ignition engines under cold-idle operating conditions


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: buster] #5433321 05/19/20 01:00 PM
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Ram02 Offline
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Ugh PP 0w20 still have a low flash point . People still gonna oil consumption using PP 0w20.


2013 Malibu 2LT M1 5w30
2013 Accord Sport M1 AP 0w20
Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: Ram02] #5433331 05/19/20 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ram02
Ugh PP 0w20 still have a low flash point . People still gonna oil consumption using PP 0w20.


I didn't realize oil consumption was a problem with PP 0w20.

Re: PP 0w20 - SP/GF-6 PDS [Re: buster] #5433333 05/19/20 01:17 PM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by Ram02
Ugh PP 0w20 still have a low flash point . People still gonna oil consumption using PP 0w20.


I didn't realize oil consumption was a problem with PP 0w20.




I don’t think he realizes it either. Also, he mentioned people consuming oil so maybe he is looking at this from a different angle? 😳


2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
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