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Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs #5429991 05/15/20 03:22 PM
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rileyc Offline OP
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Here is the latest heavy-duty diesel oil (HDDO) VOAs posted on the PQIA:

https://pqia.org/2020/05/14/castrol-gtx-and-ford-motorcraft/

Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5430015 05/15/20 03:52 PM
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Lolvoguy Online Shocked
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Thanks for the link.
Very interested to try the Motorcraft in my e30 given it's higher concentration of phosphorous and zinc
Both T4 and GTX only rely on calcium for detergent, whereas the Motorcraft uses a mix of calcium and magnesium.


06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
Say "no" to Turbo!
Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5430094 05/15/20 05:53 PM
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Wow, both those oils tested thicker than most HDEOs I’ve seen lately. I’d definitely give MC a try in my e28.


1987 BMW e28 535is - mystery mileage (300,000+) Chevron 20w50 - Wix 51732
Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: Lolvoguy] #5431060 05/17/20 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Thanks for the link.
Very interested to try the Motorcraft in my e30 given it's higher concentration of phosphorous and zinc
Both T4 and GTX only rely on calcium for detergent, whereas the Motorcraft uses a mix of calcium and magnesium.


That's weird, plenty of all of the above in the CK4 sample of GTX that I tested not too long ago. And I have absolutely zero dog in the fight, paid for the VOA with my own money and I've changed nothing between the report and posting on this ad-free forum.

Plenty of everything going on, and at a reasonable~12 bucks per gallon, normally, from Wally World.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...w/1/castrol-gtx-diesel-15w-40-ck4#UNREAD

Last edited by HDoilDude; 05/17/20 01:30 AM.
Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5431300 05/17/20 10:56 AM
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rileyc Offline OP
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There is one notable difference between the VOA HDoilDude posted and the VOA listed on the PQIA: notice the sample of Castrol GTX Diesel tested by the PQIA contains virtually no Molybdenum. The VOAs for all the other HDDOs samples posted on the PQIA contain moly and/or boron. I understand there are batch-to-batch differences due to blending, but the absence of moly perhaps indicates a formulation change in the PQIA sample.

Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5431460 05/17/20 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rileyc
There is one notable difference between the VOA HDoilDude posted and the VOA listed on the PQIA: notice the sample of Castrol GTX Diesel tested by the PQIA contains virtually no Molybdenum. The VOAs for all the other HDDOs samples posted on the PQIA contain moly and/or boron. I understand there are batch-to-batch differences due to blending, but the absence of moly perhaps indicates a formulation change in the PQIA sample.


Yeah agreed, if they changed it in the one month between posted sample dates and assuming he got a fresh from the factory bottle/directly from them.

Query I'd have is does he still buy/test them out of his own pocket or do the companies sell/provide the bottles direct? I don't wear my tinfoil hat all the live long day, but our sample dates are within a month of each other so clearly one of us got the older/newer batch.

Either his or mine was an older/newer formula. Remember, T4 changed to add moly, not remove/reduce it. Maybe mine was the newer formula with a boost in moly?

I believe I still have the bottle and can compare any label differences/batch numbers (if printed on the bottle).

Also, not sure what his site looks like any more, but it used to be that he posted the dates he sampled each one and where he bought it, etc.

You could compare the older/newer batches and see the reduced/increased additives.

However, he used to cut off the batch numbers on the back of the bottle. Kind of crucial when trying to figure out formula changes, etc.

I think it'd be helpful to see the batch numbers too, or confirm the batch difference could mean formula difference as may be the case with this Castrol.

Last edited by HDoilDude; 05/17/20 02:34 PM.
Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: HDoilDude] #5431519 05/17/20 03:07 PM
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Jeez, can't edit a post after a few minutes!! LOL

I've added my bottle tested below.

Like I said previously, normally I don't wear my tinfoil hat too tightly but it's clear as day who's on their advisory board/supporters and as you can see, certain companies such as Chevron are onboard while others are out of the picture. No Castrol/BP/Univar on there! LOL

The site has always seemed upfront and honest enough, just sayin! It doesn't seem to be a simple one man operation of a guy posting what he has tested and paid for himself. Or there's no real way to confirm that would be the case, anyways.

I emailed them to ask about their batch numbers that are cut off in their picture, I posted mine below.

Mine was made on the 64th day of 2019, so that's March 5th, at the Y plant (whichever that is).

Looks like our bottles are identical, though.


[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by HDoilDude; 05/17/20 03:08 PM.
Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5431949 05/17/20 10:58 PM
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rileyc Offline OP
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In further comparing the VOAs for Castrol GTX Diesel posted by HDoilDude and the PQIA, the one posted by HDoilDude contains both calcium and magnesium detergents in equal proportions: 985 PPM and 961 PPM respectively, and there is dose of moly (57 PPM). The VOA posted by the PQIA for Castrol GTX Diesel has a different detergency package: 2401 PPM calcium and 17 PPM magnesium, and there is no moly.

Castrol has changed the additive package for GTX Diesel.

Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5431976 05/18/20 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rileyc
In further comparing the VOAs for Castrol GTX Diesel posted by HDoilDude and the PQIA, the one posted by HDoilDude contains both calcium and magnesium detergents in equal proportions: 985 PPM and 961 PPM respectively, and there is dose of moly (57 PPM). The VOA posted by the PQIA for Castrol GTX Diesel has a different detergency package: 2401 PPM calcium and 17 PPM magnesium, and there is no moly.

Castrol has changed the additive package for GTX Diesel.


I wouldn't jump straight to that conclusion.

Take a look at Delo 400 SDE, as tested by PQIA, for example.

They went from early CK4 samples in 2017 containing no Moly and boosted calcium/lower mag to their recent 2020 sample of the same oil with similar calc/mag but a HUGE slug of Moly and triple the boron.

Additionally, as I've found out, just because you buy a fresh bottle of any given HDEO at a big store like Walmart or Advance Auto Parts, it definitely does not mean you're getting oil made recently.

I bought 6 quarts of T5 at Advance Auto last month, 3 were made in March 2020, two in July 2019, and one in September 2018!!

As a little experiment, I'll be sending in samples for VOA to see if T5 changed at all over this time, as the packaging changed a bit (almost unnoticeable, only the top of the caps!). T5 seems a bit more consistent than some of the other CK4 flavors, though, based on VOAs I've seen online.

Anyways... Without knowing the bath dates of the same oil, hard to know for sure.

Just some food for thought.

Last edited by HDoilDude; 05/18/20 12:15 AM.
Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: HDoilDude] #5432126 05/18/20 07:49 AM
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Tom NJ Online Content
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Originally Posted by HDoilDude
Like I said previously, normally I don't wear my tinfoil hat too tightly but it's clear as day who's on their advisory board/supporters and as you can see, certain companies such as Chevron are onboard while others are out of the picture. No Castrol/BP/Univar on there! LOL

The site has always seemed upfront and honest enough, just sayin! It doesn't seem to be a simple one man operation of a guy posting what he has tested and paid for himself. Or there's no real way to confirm that would be the case, anyways.


PQIA mission is to serve consumers and therefore they purchase oil samples off of retail shelves just as consumers do. The Castrol sample was purchased in Edison, NJ on 2/13/20. Analysis funding is provided by supporters, however, the supporters have no knowledge of or say in what oils are purchased, and see the results at the same time everyone else does when published. This is done so PQIA can remain unbiased and independent, with no influence from supporters on samples selected or test results. The published test results are exactly as received from the laboratory, and suspect or inconsistent results are rechecked before publication.

The companies on the Advisory Board and the supporters are an impressive cross section of the industry. They are driven by a common interest in maintaining a level playing field in the marketplace. All supporters must sign a Code of Ethical Business Conduct or their support will not be accepted. I know PQIA well and they are straight as an arrow.

Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: Tom NJ] #5432390 05/18/20 01:12 PM
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HDoilDude Offline
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Originally Posted by Tom NJ
Originally Posted by HDoilDude
Like I said previously, normally I don't wear my tinfoil hat too tightly but it's clear as day who's on their advisory board/supporters and as you can see, certain companies such as Chevron are onboard while others are out of the picture. No Castrol/BP/Univar on there! LOL

The site has always seemed upfront and honest enough, just sayin! It doesn't seem to be a simple one man operation of a guy posting what he has tested and paid for himself. Or there's no real way to confirm that would be the case, anyways.


PQIA mission is to serve consumers and therefore they purchase oil samples off of retail shelves just as consumers do. The Castrol sample was purchased in Edison, NJ on 2/13/20. Analysis funding is provided by supporters, however, the supporters have no knowledge of or say in what oils are purchased, and see the results at the same time everyone else does when published. This is done so PQIA can remain unbiased and independent, with no influence from supporters on samples selected or test results. The published test results are exactly as received from the laboratory, and suspect or inconsistent results are rechecked before publication.

The companies on the Advisory Board and the supporters are an impressive cross section of the industry. They are driven by a common interest in maintaining a level playing field in the marketplace. All supporters must sign a Code of Ethical Business Conduct or their support will not be accepted. I know PQIA well and they are straight as an arrow.


If you say so.

You wouldn't happen to be Thomas Glenn, president of PQIA from NJ, would you? smirk2

Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: HDoilDude] #5432449 05/18/20 02:10 PM
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No, but I know him well and have worked with him for many years, and chaired the PQIA Advisory Board for the first two years. He is a man of high integrity.

Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5432458 05/18/20 02:21 PM
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It’s normal for VOAs to change slightly from one bottle to another bottle a few months apart.

Love the PQIA testing on their website. 👍

Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5432553 05/18/20 04:18 PM
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Sure, I understand slightly but it's a pretty big difference between the two, which might mean a change in formula. I'm just trying to pinpoint when the change in formula might have occurred, to help us consumers out who may want one formula over the other.

I emailed PQIA to see if they could offer the date/batch code that was JUST cropped out of the picture on the website. Will let the BITOG community know if I get a response, should clear up the big additive difference between their test and mine.

I see where and when they bought their sample but like I've said previously in this thread; just because you buy oil off the retail shelf in Feb 2020, doesn't mean you're getting a new batch/latest formula. I'm living proof of this and now, as an experiment for Rotella T5 anyways, I'm going to test the "new" T5 batch from Sept 2018 vs the batch from March 2020. Both bought at the same Advance Auto in April 2020.


Regarding PQIA:
(likely an unpopular opinion but it's corona lockdown #1 and I've got the time for a bit of a rant)

I don't know anyone at the company, personally nor professionally like TomNJ does.

I'm not trying to personally insult anyone at the company, here. Heck, I appreciate that the site compiles the reports in a neat and organized manner for all to see and appreciate. It's a great format!

But what really grinds my gears is when someone who claims to personally and professionally know PQIA/their leadership downplays the company's revenue, brought in by dealing with and/or benefitting directly/indirectly from major oil corporations.

They're cleverly calling big petroleum corporations "supporters" and act like they're just covering the cost of these analyses for the protection of us, the consumer, and to ensure a level playing field among the big companies.

However... PQIA earns millions in revenue every year, and they're gonna play it off as if all they do is test samples of oil for the safety of consumers every day?

Riiiiiiiight...

This (petroleum/lubricants, whatever you want to call it) is an industry driven nearly exclusively by profit and every single decision is controlled by the dollar. No surprise there, just like most high dollar industries.

I've got no beef with big business and profit but don't tell me PQIA has no bias. That's just ridiculous.

PQIA preident Thomas F. Glenn has been in the petroleum industry since the 1970s and his jobs ranged from a data analyst in a lab, to a field sales rep for Texaco, and an oil jobber for Amoco (they buy lots of raw product for resale).

Now, Tom Glenn in NJ has several consulting firms which work the petroleum industry. PQIA is one of them. Petroleum Trends International, Inc. is another. Both bring in more money in one year than I'll ever earn in a lifetime.

That is fantastic that Tom from NJ has struck out on his own after a career working for the big petroleum companies and has brought in a LOT of revenue for him and his employees (at least 50+, according to the internet).

But you can't tell me that any one of us BITOG UOA/VOA enthusiasts, could have turned out passion into a business like PQIA simply by sending VOAs to independent labs for analysis and posting them online. You need to have big connections within the petroleum industry, and the drive/grit/determination to craft and execute a big picture business plan like Tom from NJ has done.

This is classic consulting start-up 101. Oftentimes it fails but PQIA has definitely succeeded, and seems to be doing well. I have many close friends who have done this in various industries and government consulting and it doesn't make them bad people. But there is very real and definite business ethics concerns. So when PQIA touts business codes of ethics, yeah I get riled up and will rant about it.

I love BITOG and the community here because it's fed VOA and UOA from actual consumers. Grassroots, good for us all. Free speech on the forum, also good!!

And hey, PQIA also exposes oil brands and formulas that are downright dangerous to be using, I can see that from their press releases. That's commendable and I love that they're helping the consumer in this regard.

But I'm not a fan of conflicts of interest and integrity means everything in my little world. When a company like PQIA touts that they require the signing of a Code of Ethical Business Conducts, then turns around and accepts "support" (money) from oil corporations... Isn't that a bit of hypocrisy in action? Could we not call that the very definition of a conflict of interest?

It's arrogant to think that by waving around this act of having members sign a business ethics code, outsiders are supposed to just assume all is well and there's absolutely nothing rotten in Denmark.

Give me a break.

Don't preach about Business Code of Ethics and tell me there's complete unbias and no influence from supporters when your estimated revenue is eight figures plus (10-11 million dollars annual revenue estimated by zoominfo/owler, quick 5min Google search) and from what we can tell on the outside, the majority of this is funding from your listed supporters.

Aww heck. Who am I kidding, I'm sure all the supporters and board members are routinely re-investigated to ensure strong business ethics and they all have nothing other than "an interest in maintaining a level playing field" and the consumers in mind.

I can write whatever mission statement I want if I head up PQIA but at the end of the day, actions speak louder than words and the money trail definitely plays a factor.

I'll continue to share whatever UOA and VOA I have done and I'll continue to enjoy the lovely website format that PQIA provides us. I don't PQIA is a big bad evil company. But don't try and BS a BS'er.

PQIA is making plenty of dough off its supporters, and just take a look at who that is and tell me there's no conflict of interest. If you can, I've got some excellent beachfront property for you to invest in!

Fin. Rant over.

Last edited by HDoilDude; 05/18/20 04:27 PM.
Re: Latest PQIA HDDO VOAs [Re: rileyc] #5433073 05/19/20 08:23 AM
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My goodness, you missed the mark on so many levels that I wouldn't know where to begin. But since you will believe whatever you want to without facts, I won't bother. I have worked with PQIA since their founding, served on the Advisory Board, and know the owner, company, and supporters. I deal in facts, not speculation. Have a nice day.

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