Forums Migration

Please read this thread

Recent Topics
Help me determine if my CVT fluid has been changed
by Dallasmale1970 - 07/12/20 08:01 PM
Hyundais, Hyundais, Hyundais!
by csandste - 07/12/20 07:57 PM
Traveller's (WPP) $10.99 - 5 QT
by Gene K - 07/12/20 07:26 PM
PEAK 10X or Peak Global Lifetime
by pbm - 07/12/20 07:25 PM
Nio stock. How high will it go?
by motor_oil_madman - 07/12/20 05:34 PM
AAP Rotella Gas Truck Clearance
by Sam_Julier - 07/12/20 05:32 PM
Any 47RH Transmission Experts? CTD Ram
by JHZR2 - 07/12/20 04:58 PM
WM Magna1 10w30 gallon $5
by 2strokeNorthstar - 07/12/20 04:55 PM
I found a WWII movie for yinz to watch.
by JimPghPA - 07/12/20 04:45 PM
Jackpoint Jackstand Review
by RamFan - 07/12/20 03:03 PM
Lesabre Brake fluid capacity
by Ihatetochangeoil - 07/12/20 02:56 PM
Baking Cookies in the Car - 2.0
by Nick1994 - 07/12/20 02:17 PM
Dealer ruined my transmission!!!!
by John344 - 07/12/20 02:04 PM
Wax / Sealer Recommendations
by 92saturnsl2 - 07/12/20 01:45 PM
Horrible Duramax Aftermarket Filter Mod
by ToadU - 07/12/20 01:29 PM
Japan unveils timeline for indigenous fighter jet program
by gathermewool - 07/12/20 12:27 PM
NEW Rotella T6 15w40
by ToadU - 07/12/20 11:54 AM
2001 Silverado 1500 4x4 Alignment Concerns
by Blang - 07/12/20 11:37 AM
Full Synthetic for ATS V
by cadillactech - 07/12/20 11:33 AM
Newest Members
fxxkat, Ajreitano, Slick122, Ford4life76, Patrick_Hall1988
71916 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
99 registered members (2004tdigls, 92saturnsl2, 77GrandPrix, apollo18, alchargo, Anthony, 3 invisible), 1,923 guests, and 49 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics307,775
Posts5,317,539
Members71,916
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Airlines, will they survive? #5429008 05/14/20 10:44 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,064
A
Alfred_B Offline OP
OP Offline
A
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,064
I'm trying to see if at some point in the near future investing in blue chip airlines. At this point I'm not sure all of them will be able to avoid bankruptcy, even with the bailouts they have received. I think South West Airlines may survive but am not very confident.

What do fellow bitogers think?

This about owning stock, I want to avoid the value of my investment becoming zero.

Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429015 05/14/20 10:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 11,327
javacontour Offline
Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 11,327
Bankruptcy doesn't mean they disappear. Bankruptcy means they get a chance to figure out how to pay their debts. It often holds off creditors and a payment plan is agreed upon in the courts.

Some MAY disappear instead of reorganizing. Creditors would rather get paid, even if later, than not, so they tend to work with the debtor to restructure the debt. Even the creditors don't want the airlines to disappear. They want them to figure out how to pay off the debt. That cannot happen if they go out of business.


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429023 05/14/20 10:56 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,064
A
Alfred_B Offline OP
OP Offline
A
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,064
. I'm concerned about the value of common stock becoming worthless

Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429030 05/14/20 11:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 8,815
W
Wolf359 Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 8,815
If they can survive, it just means they're going to have to charge more per plane ticket if the most they can sell is 60-70% occupancy.

Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429033 05/14/20 11:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 24,515
Mr Nice Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 24,515
Yes. They will survive after restructuring is done.

It won't be pretty..... but lots of cuts will have to be made.

Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429037 05/14/20 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,949
B
Barkleymut Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,949
Why invest in airlines when there are sectors of the economy that are expected to survive and even thrive? I love Ford cars and trucks but I would not put 1 penny in F stock right now, the next few years for the auto industry could be really tough....same with airlines. On the other hand, MSFT, GOOG, AMZN, drug companies, food companies, etc should do just fine regardless of how long we have to live with this virus.


09 Vue 2.4L 4spd AT/ 09 Flex 3.5L / 96 F150 5.0 5speed / 07 Mustang GT auto
Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429044 05/14/20 11:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,949
B
Barkleymut Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,949
yeah, I remember a couple of politicians saying they wanted an end to air travel.....just wait until they realize it takes days to drive from LA, Denver, or Seattle to DC.


09 Vue 2.4L 4spd AT/ 09 Flex 3.5L / 96 F150 5.0 5speed / 07 Mustang GT auto
Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429057 05/14/20 11:36 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 940
N
NO2 Offline
Offline
N
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 940
Airlines are a great wealth destroyer, and stock purchases are speculative. You have a huge upside if conditions improve rapidly. I would only invest with money you can afford to lose.

Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: javacontour] #5429077 05/14/20 11:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,684
E
ecotourist Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,684
Originally Posted by javacontour
Bankruptcy doesn't mean they disappear. Bankruptcy means they get a chance to figure out how to pay their debts. It often holds off creditors and a payment plan is agreed upon in the courts.

Likely true. But in a bankruptcy the investors/stockholders come after lenders (the banks) and bond-holders and generally lose their money.

If Warren Buffet is selling I wouldn't be buying, not at this time anyway.


2000 BMW 528i 5MT M Sport
2007 Honda Accord EX-L 4Door V6 6MT
Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429092 05/14/20 12:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,850
R
ragtoplvr Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,850
The value of the stock held by the BOD and executives should be cancelled first. Including any future payments held in escrow etc. That is supposed to be incentive to do a good job,

If that is not enough then the rest of the stock should be canceled. The company can go to debtor in possession financing. It is only released when the bankrupts is complete.

Cancelling the BOD and executives stock first never happens

The stock should become worthless before any of the debtors are not paid. We have been legally stiffed by several companies via bankruptcy, and I know the executives did OK on on of them AND their stock was not canceled.

Rod

Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429099 05/14/20 12:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,147
Astro14 Offline
Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,147
We’ve been talking about this for a while.

Take a look here:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5400880/1

This thread is a duplication, of that discussion, so, I encourage you all to read through that one.

Last edited by Astro14; 05/14/20 12:22 PM.

32 Packard 15W40
01 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 AMSOIL SS
02 Volvo V70 T5 0W30 Edge
02 Volvo V70 XC 0W40 Edge
05 MB S600 0W40 M1
16 Tundra 1794 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra
Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429160 05/14/20 01:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,909
P
PandaBear Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,909
If you want to avoid value becomes zero you can't take on too much risk, and right now buying airlines stocks is a speculation with high risk and high reward.


"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429227 05/14/20 03:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,997
Z
ZZman Offline
Offline
Z
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,997
Of course. How could they not?


2005 Toyota Avalon XLS 3.5 motor
2014 Ford Fusion 2.5 motor
Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429252 05/14/20 04:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 629
N
nickaluch Offline
Offline
N
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 629
I wouldn't touch airline stocks. Some airlines will survive some won't. Government won't let all go out of business we do need them to move forward. I just don't see corporate America buying tickets for business travel most are broke now and vacation flight's I don't see rebounding anytime soon. Airlines is a very tough business. Trump airlines didn't last to long just saying.


2007 G6 beater.2012 E450 box truck. 2018 Chevy Traverse.2017 E450 box truck.2017 Chevy 3500 extend cargo van.
Re: Airlines, will they survive? [Re: Alfred_B] #5429298 05/14/20 05:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,314
F
fdcg27 Offline
Offline
F
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,314
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
I'm trying to see if at some point in the near future investing in blue chip airlines. At this point I'm not sure all of them will be able to avoid bankruptcy, even with the bailouts they have received. I think South West Airlines may survive but am not very confident.

What do fellow bitogers think?

This about owning stock, I want to avoid the value of my investment becoming zero.


It's not so much a matter of whether as which.
Southwest is probably a good bet for survival without a trip through bankruptcy court which would kill shareholder equity. I have my favorite candidate for Chapter 11 just based on balance sheet fundamentals.
Still early days, though. I expect airline stocks to decline farther before any real rebound.
Airlines provide a vital service. The question is just how much of that service will be met with what some economists call felt demand. Others would argue that there is no distinction and that demand means no more than people being willing to spend their money on the service.


18 Accord Hybrid 30K HGMO 0W-20
17 Forester 36K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 115K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 119K M1HM 5W-30
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™