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Noack Variances #5428985 05/14/20 10:16 AM
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buster Offline OP
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Since I've been on a Noack tear lately, mostly due to having 2 GDI engines, I've noticed what others have said in the past about Noack testing having a margin of error. Noack is an approximate figure. It's not the end all, but it is something to consider. Also, companies will play games with this number and obviously choose the lowest value they can obtain.

Just for fun, here are some examples from an independent lab and the product data sheet comparisons. The data is from the YouTube channel which has been very consistent.

Amsoil SS 0w20 PDS - 8.5%
Lab Tested - 9.5%
Amsoil SS 0w30 PDS - 8.8%
Lab Tested - 9.5%

Redline 0w20 PDS - 9.0%
Lab Tested - 9.4%

Ravenol 0w20 ECS - 7.4%
Lab Tested - 7.5%




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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5428993 05/14/20 10:23 AM
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With the exception of the Amsoil differences
RL and Ravenol seem to be pretty dang close
That’s for the info !

Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429000 05/14/20 10:33 AM
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Link to the source of the lab data.


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429022 05/14/20 10:54 AM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Did they test multiple bottles/batches or just one?


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: Quattro Pete] #5429034 05/14/20 11:11 AM
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buster Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Did they test multiple bottles/batches or just one?


Likely just one. That would be quite expensive I'd imagine.


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429052 05/14/20 11:27 AM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Did they test multiple bottles/batches or just one?


Likely just one. That would be quite expensive I'd imagine.

Right, but considering bottle-to-bottle, batch-to-batch variation, in addition to the already inherent difficulty of accurately measuring Noack, it makes their test results less valuable, but better than nothing, I guess. Thanks for sharing.


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429058 05/14/20 11:37 AM
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I don't believe the variation would be all that great and worthy of much real world concern. ..

Not likely at all too see one batch with a Noack of 8.8 percent and the next batch at say 14.5 percent....

Using properly proportional weights/amounts of each base oil added to a blend would very likely produce a very highly consistent oil performance in all measurable means and testing procedures.


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429081 05/14/20 11:59 AM
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Within a percent I would chalk this to margin of error.


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429087 05/14/20 12:08 PM
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Agree cheers


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: dave1251] #5429103 05/14/20 12:24 PM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted by dave1251
Within a percent I would chalk this to margin of error.

In which case, you can say that all of these oils tested correctly, compared to their spec sheet.


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429121 05/14/20 12:49 PM
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The Ravenol is within error margins. The Red Line isn't and the Amsoil is fraud. I wonder if the oil oxidzes to a degree starting immediately after blending and this affects the test?


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429127 05/14/20 12:56 PM
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Without knowing which specific ASTM test was used and the repeatability and reproducability from that standard it is impossible to tell whether the listed numbers are equivalent to the published values. Tests like pour point, flash point and Noack generally have wide reproducibility values.

In order to be able to make a valid comparison the tests must use the same ASTM procedure, the facility must use ASTM certified test equipment, and they must follow the test exactly as written, including minimum sample size and proper data analysis. No exceptions.


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: sloinker] #5429129 05/14/20 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sloinker
The Ravenol is within error margins. The Red Line isn't and the Amsoil is fraud. I wonder if the oil oxidzes to a degree starting immediately after blending and this affects the test?

What are the margins for this test?

But before you answer that, which test is it?


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429159 05/14/20 01:42 PM
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ASTM D5800 was used for Noack.

The point of the post was just that there is going to be some small variation in the numbers that's all.


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Re: Noack Variances [Re: buster] #5429180 05/14/20 02:17 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by buster
ASTM D5800 was used for Noack.

The point of the post was just that there is going to be some small variation in the numbers that's all.

Thanks. I no longer have access to the ASTM procedures and I couldn't find a rogue copy online. There are four different procedures in the standard however (A, B, C or D) so it also matters which procedure is being used.


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