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Disc brake with 4 pistons #5426098 05/11/20 07:57 AM
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supton Offline OP
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I'm 99% sure that this means that I need new calipers... both fronts on my Tundra have some sort of damage to these pistons. Or at the very least a rebuild. From what I can tell, the pistons are amazingly still free though, so I'm tempted to buy a rebuild kit. However I've never worked on a 4 piston caliper--do you just open the bleeder and push down on the piston, and just that piston will move? It's been a couple of years since I messed with those bleeders, and I didn't think to see if they were loose yesterday.

Alternatively, is there a downside to leaving it alone? I'm guessing if it seizes, it'll just be like a single piston caliper, and cause a dragging brake when it goes.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 205k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 159k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 225k, his
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426111 05/11/20 08:13 AM
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JHZR2 Offline
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Wow, doesn’t look good.

Frankly, given the amount of rust, I’d be looking for replacements, at least rebuild some junkyard pulls from someplace else...

Ive done two piston calipers, and the key is to have a block of wood and/or a clamp to allow only one piston to come out at a time. It can be a pain, especially if one is more difficult, or after you get some of them out and they’re moving well. It just takes patience.

Use low pressure air, as it doesn’t always take a ton, if stuck, use a bit more pressure. Think about what the piston will crash into when it pops out with force and speed. Wood is good. A poorly located clamp can be crashed into and nic or bend a portion of the piston face.

At minimum, to get started I’d put the old pads in there, and use sequentially smaller pieces of wood between them to try to get all of the pistons further and further out together. Then it’s just a matter of smaller shims to walk them all out. Ultimately you might clamp one side in entirely and blow out the other side, or something else.

I believe Toyota has a special glycol grease for brake assembly. I used brake fluid, but other products may be better.

Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426142 05/11/20 08:42 AM
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Donald Offline
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You either need to rebuild the caliper or replace it. If you rebuild you may need new pistons also. If metal they need to be pristine looking when wiped off. No rust or pitting. Don't wirebrush, replace if rusty.


2015 Ford F-250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426146 05/11/20 08:45 AM
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slacktide_bitog Online Content
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You're in luck! Raybestos makes all-NEW non-reman calipers for your Tundra happy

Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426157 05/11/20 08:57 AM
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Gebo Offline
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I'd probably go new if I had the money and I planned on keeping the truck. One thing I didn't learn until later in life was the importance of lubing
the caliper pins.

If I had plenty of money, I'd at least "consider" the rotors as well. Just do them all at once. IF I had PLENTY of money.

Toyota makes 3 different lubes for brakes.

1. Anywhere metal touches rubber 08887-01206 (Rubber Grease)
2. Ears of pads 08887-80609 (Brake Caliper Grease)
3. Back of pads between shims and back. Comes with pads or Molykote AS-880-N

Very expensive if you go OEM lubes.


'98 LEX LS400 310K
'02 4Runner 250K
'05 Lex LS430 90K
'07 Lex GX470 75K

Shell Gas and Truck 5w-30
Amsoil OE 10w-30
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426167 05/11/20 09:07 AM
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A_Harman Offline
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Yeah, get new calipers. You're truck is 10 years old, so the creeping crud has invaded. But it only has 158k miles, so it seems like there is a lot of life left in it.


2008 Dodge Ram 3500 diesel/G56
1985 Z51 Corvette track car 355/6-speed
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel/NV4500+GV
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck 307/SM465
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426198 05/11/20 09:37 AM
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supton Offline OP
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Those rotors are nearly new--less than 3 years and less than 20kmiles.

Sounds like I need to look into rebuilding or replacing. At least I have warning, I guess.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 205k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 159k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 225k, his
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: Gebo] #5426494 05/11/20 02:35 PM
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Donald Offline
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Originally Posted by Gebo
I'd probably go new if I had the money and I planned on keeping the truck. One thing I didn't learn until later in life was the importance of lubing
the caliper pins.

If I had plenty of money, I'd at least "consider" the rotors as well. Just do them all at once. IF I had PLENTY of money.

Toyota makes 3 different lubes for brakes.

1. Anywhere metal touches rubber 08887-01206 (Rubber Grease)
2. Ears of pads 08887-80609 (Brake Caliper Grease)
3. Back of pads between shims and back. Comes with pads or Molykote AS-880-N

Very expensive if you go OEM lubes.


I am not sure lubing of the caliper pins is necessary on a regular basis but certainly inspection is. I have yet to find a caliper pin that was not lubed or had dirt/water inside the boot. But I only do my own brakes. Not in business as a mechanic. But if you are going to inspect then lubing is not that big a deal.


2015 Ford F-250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: Donald] #5426501 05/11/20 02:44 PM
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Gebo Offline
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Originally Posted by Donald
Originally Posted by Gebo
I'd probably go new if I had the money and I planned on keeping the truck. One thing I didn't learn until later in life was the importance of lubing
the caliper pins.

If I had plenty of money, I'd at least "consider" the rotors as well. Just do them all at once. IF I had PLENTY of money.

Toyota makes 3 different lubes for brakes.

1. Anywhere metal touches rubber 08887-01206 (Rubber Grease)
2. Ears of pads 08887-80609 (Brake Caliper Grease)
3. Back of pads between shims and back. Comes with pads or Molykote AS-880-N

Very expensive if you go OEM lubes.


I am not sure lubing of the caliper pins is necessary on a regular basis but certainly inspection is. I have yet to find a caliper pin that was not lubed or had dirt/water inside the boot. But I only do my own brakes. Not in business as a mechanic. But if you are going to inspect then lubing is not that big a deal.


For clarification, I only lube caliper pins when changing pads. Every 3-5 years. But before the last 5 years, I never lubed them.

Last edited by Gebo; 05/11/20 02:45 PM.

'98 LEX LS400 310K
'02 4Runner 250K
'05 Lex LS430 90K
'07 Lex GX470 75K

Shell Gas and Truck 5w-30
Amsoil OE 10w-30
Toyota ATF's and Coolant
Amsoil Gear Oil and Grease
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426569 05/11/20 04:13 PM
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spk2000 Offline
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Either get new or good junkyard ones. Those are rough.


96 Grand Marquis 203,000 mi
01 Sable LS Wagon 163,000 mi
02 Montero 191,000 mi
03 Sable LS Sedan 73,000 mi
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426607 05/11/20 04:53 PM
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GZRider Offline
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In my opinion those are shot and I'd second Slacktide_bitog's suggestion on the replacement brand recommendation, those are excellent for the price. I had to do the rears on my G37x in February when one started to stick and they both had similar levels of deterioration to yours. Brakes are important, if they fail somewhere inconvenient you are likely going to spend a lot more money getting out of that jam then you will to use better parts to do the job from the start.

Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426614 05/11/20 05:03 PM
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supton Offline OP
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Why do people say they are shot? Is the rust impeding heat transfer? The pistons still move freely, once free the pads do not rattle about. I haven't tested the bleeder in a while. so that might condemn them I guess. If it wasn't for the torn boots I wouldn't think twice about running them longer (and TBH all the pistons that have seized on me had perfectly good rubber boots so... what good are they for?).

These are a really long ways from somehow breaking in half or otherwise falling off.

shrug


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 205k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 159k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 225k, his
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426628 05/11/20 05:25 PM
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CT Rob Offline
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Replace those.


2017 Toyota Tundra SR5 Crewmax 4x4 Trd offroad.Inferno Orange.All stock for now....
Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426639 05/11/20 05:37 PM
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Oldswagon Offline
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I have the same truck, but a little older. If the pistons move freely, you should be okay. I agree, the rust shouldn't be a problem for function. However the boots definitely need to be changed. They will allow moisture inside which could cause piston corrosion and failure. And if you haven't loosened the bleeder, that might be challenging to get loose without some heat to keep it from breaking.

The other issue is if you take it apart to rebuild the pistons might already be corroded. So then you get into replacing all four pistons plus a seal kit back into rusty caliper. It might not be too much more to get a new or rebuilt unit (Raybestos makes new that are zinc coated).

I am in the same boat with truck. The front brakes will need to be done soon. I have at least one front caliper with bad boot but they still seem to be working okay. I was going to fix it but I may just order new calipers and save the time.

Re: Disc brake with 4 pistons [Re: supton] #5426640 05/11/20 05:38 PM
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The outer boot(s) has ruptured, so at the very least, like you said, they need to be rebuilt.

Given the amount of external corrosion, and the odd penchant for some here to neglect brake fluid changes, chances are that there will be damage to the pistons and/or bores found after they've been disassembled.

For many, by the time the seal kit, new pistons, etc. is factored in, it's just easier to replace them.

It appears that they've lead a rough life, and both sides have been compromised. A dragging or seized piston will generate extra heat and increase the risk of the fluid boiling, especially if it hasn't been maintained. In that situation, even only one affected caliper will affect the rest of the system, and it goes downhill fast from there. I've experienced it. The pedal goes straight to the floor.

With things like this, the value assigned to one's own life isn't the only factor; others' lives are at risk as well. Some will obsess over wavy filter pleats or UOA numbers, things that matter not one bit to others, but will blithely, even proudly, proclaim that they neglect their brakes.

The incongruity is puzzling.

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