Interesting look at Mazda OE 0w20 SN/GF5

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SA is 1.03, just above the dexos limit of 1.0. Noack is 13.1%. Lot of moly and boron.

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Lots of moly, boron and calcium indeed...........not so much TBN
Shame the "Mazda moly oil" is so expensive.
 
Originally Posted by Strjock81
High Noack indicative of less than stellar base stocks?

No, the CCS is pretty low. You need to take the CCS and Noack simultaneously into consideration. Therefore, the base oil is likely Group III+ and/or GTL.

The additive package seems outdated with no magnesium and a weak TBN despite the high SA.

An MSDS shows that it is made by Total.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Strjock81
High Noack indicative of less than stellar base stocks?
No, the CCS is pretty low. You need to take the CCS and Noack simultaneously into consideration. Therefore, the base oil is likely Group III+ and/or GTL.

The additive package seems outdated with no magnesium and a weak TBN despite the high SA.

An MSDS shows that it is made by Total.

Note that the viscosity index VI = 219 is ultra high, meaning the base oil is very thin and the VII content is very high, typical of Japanese-OEM oils aimed at improving the fuel economy through a ultra-high VI by increasing the VII content, which could compromise the engine wear and engine deposits.

Therefore, the reason for the high Noack is the very thin base oil. The base oil is otherwise still Group III+ and/or GTL according to the CCS and Noack.

Interestingly the oxidation number, if correct, may indicate the presence of a small amount of a POE (polyol ester) base stock (3 - 4%). I saw the same thing with the TGMO 0W-20 -- it could be another Japanese-OEM thing not talked about.
 
Originally Posted by benjy
overpriced like most dealer products + poor oil according to specs!!

???


Really ?

Never found mid-high NOACK to be an issue in practice.

But maybe I don't practice enough ...
 
It makes great lube for folding knife pivots! I used it for a short while, but have since switched to M1 EP 0W-20, High Mileage (I have 115,000 miles on the Mazda3).
 
Originally Posted by DBMaster
It makes great lube for folding knife pivots!


What kind of OCI do you run on your knife pivots? Got any UOAs?
 
Originally Posted by Strjock81
Originally Posted by DBMaster
It makes great lube for folding knife pivots!


What kind of OCI do you run on your knife pivots? Got any UOAs?




LOL. The OCI is based upon feel. Knives with ball bearing pivots are awesome. I keep a medical syringe with the Mazda oil in it. Hopefully, no one will ever get the bright idea of injecting himself with it.

For my car I now am stuck with a mere 15,000 mile OCI because microGreen went out of business. I was using their filters and running 30,000 miles between oil changes.
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Originally Posted by haggler
This is the oem mazda oil for Europe made by Total. Can tell by the packaging. Comes in 0w20 and 5w30.

The USA Mazda "moly" oil is made by Idemitsu - ZEPRO Eco Medalist Advanced Moly. On the amazon questions section Idemitsu confirms it's the Mazda factory fill, maybe Subaru also.


Subaru uses the Ecomedalist Dex1 version.

I actually run that in my Mazda, as I think it's a better oil. Much lower NOACK and higher TBN. It has less moly, but still a ton (350 ppm) compared to virtually any other oil. It's a little down on VI but still super high at 205.

IMO, Mazda recommends the Moly oil mostly for fuel economy reasons. I think the EcoMedalist Dex1 is better all around, as it's still a very high moly oil but has better specs in other areas. The additive package is different, but should still be very effective, especially given the significantly higher TBN. Almost always much cheaper, too.

That said, from what I've seen it really doesn't matter too much, the Skyactiv engines are shaping up to be very reliable and you can run any decent SN/SN+/SP 0w20 without issue. I think the filter matters more for these cars, as Mazda has a particular set of specs that are only really met by one aftermarket part (the Wix/NAPA 57002/7002) and even that might not really matter too much.
 
Originally Posted by blingo
Hello Gokhan,

with the data taken from this virgin oil analysis https://oil-club.de/index.php?threa...upra-0w-20/&postID=100275#post100275
the Supra 0W-20 would have looked vastly different - like quite the opposite of the two TGMOs. Like rather thick in the base and highly profiting from temperature in the fiction of VII-content.

Originally Posted by blingo
If one adduced another sheet https://oil-club.de/index.php?attachment/10205-mazda-original-oil-supra-0w-20-7fh-201805-de-deu-pdf/
and speculated on missing value for HTHSV there might be even more in it per your calculator, "BO DV150 of 2.55":

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Hi there,

First of all welcome!

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Here is my take:

  • Mazda Original Oil Supra 0W-20 SN MSDS lists density = 0.836-0.846 g/cm³, KV40 = 35.92 cSt, and KV100 = 7.8-8.7 cSt. These are in excellent agreement with the Spanish VOA in the original post if you calculate the mid-points.
  • If you calculate the BO VI using the BO KV40 and BO KV100, keeping in mind that these values are rough estimates, you get BO VI = 157 using the Spanish VOA and MSDS values. The detergent-dispersant-inhibitor (DDI) package increases the VI of the neat (no additives and/or VII added) base oil by about 5-15; therefore, this translates into a base-oil VI of 142-152, which is possible for the Group III+ base oil this oil is made of.
  • With the VII contents you obtained, it is impossible to make an oil with VI ~ 220. If you calculate the BO VI for your values, you get VI = 204 and VI = 213 for the base oil. There are no such base oils, even after you take the DDI package into account.
  • HTHS values you used are unrealistic for a Japanese-OEM 0W-20. Japanese-OEM 0W-20's typically use HTHS = 2.6 cP to maximize the fuel economy.
  • If you use HTHS = 2.6 cP, you get BO VI = 180 (VII = 5.2%, HTFS = 1.87 cP) with the German VOA and BO VI = 190 (VII = 3.6%, HTFS = 2.03 cP) with the German Total PDS. Now, there are no such ultra-high-VI base oils; however, there is one way this could happen. The last two columns (BO KV40 and BO KV100) are rough estimates because they assume a temperature-independent viscosity boost, approximately correct for linear olefin copolymer (OCP) as well as hydrogenated styrene (linear or star) VII's. However, there is another VII type called polymethacrylate (PMA). PMA VII's boost the viscosity more at high temperatures, leading to a very high viscosity index (VI). Nevertheless, a PMA VII is rarely used because it requires a solid polymer content several times higher than other VII's, substantially increasing the engine deposits as a result.


Could it be that Total actually did use a PMA VII? It can't be ruled out. There are Japanese-OEM patents for the use of a PMA VII in making of a 0W-20, but such oils haven't been made much in practice because of the engine-deposits issues I mentioned. We will never know unless Total discloses the VII type.
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Thanks!
 
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