Recent Topics
Hailstorm Yesterday
by Delta - 06/05/20 04:47 AM
Date code on Mighty Engine Guard II? Air Filter
by blufeb95 - 06/05/20 01:01 AM
My poor Jetta can't catch a break.
by FordBroncoVWJeta - 06/05/20 12:22 AM
Bought a truck finally, warning no Ford content
by bdcardinal - 06/04/20 11:31 PM
Got a septoplasty today....
by daves66nova - 06/04/20 10:44 PM
2020 330i xDrive Loaner
by MCompact - 06/04/20 10:02 PM
Appliance repair?
by motor_oil_madman - 06/04/20 09:44 PM
Glad we got a seasonal RV site
by Pat in Speedway - 06/04/20 09:19 PM
Mobil 1 AP Clearance at Wal-Mart
by KeithS_NW_Ohio - 06/04/20 09:07 PM
Recent experience with a Michelin Defender
by FordSVTGuy - 06/04/20 08:46 PM
music quality of speakers in the 70's vs now
by raaizin - 06/04/20 08:15 PM
pressure washer care
by raaizin - 06/04/20 08:06 PM
Watch Forums?
by maverickfhs - 06/04/20 07:53 PM
Who has a media/sand blast cabinet?
by spasm3 - 06/04/20 07:39 PM
Why isn't Polyethylene Glycol standard?
by RamFan - 06/04/20 06:37 PM
Motorcraft GF-6 at Quick Lane.
by Gene K - 06/04/20 06:29 PM
OEM Honda wiper blade curvature
by mclasser - 06/04/20 06:24 PM
GDI vs. MPFI OCI's
by LubricatusObsess - 06/04/20 06:19 PM
Mobil “full synthetic”
by 53' Stude - 06/04/20 06:01 PM
1992 Ford Ranger Brake Fluid Type
by yeehaw1960 - 06/04/20 04:21 PM
Newest Members
stubby73, Polkaman, Ramboagain, tekfire07, Kernal
71608 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
30 registered members (CB900F2, chuck172, Danno, bachman, DaHen, ctechbob, 2 invisible), 774 guests, and 38 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics306,228
Posts5,288,641
Members71,608
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B #5421758 05/05/20 03:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,869
The Critic Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,869
Idemitsu has begun advertising API SP/ILSAC GF-6B compatibility for their regular line of synthetic oils.

It appears that there may have been some changes in the formulation since the data sheets have changed. The 5W-30 appears to have undergone the most significant change.

0W-16: https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/dA/9d700623c8/tds_Idemitsu%200W-16%20GF-6B.pdf

0W-20: https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/dA/be3bf33b55/tds_Idemitsu%200W-20%20GF-6.pdf

5W-20: https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/dA/ca04da0beb/tds_Idemitsu%205W-20%20GF-6.pdf

5W-30: https://www.idemitsulubricants.com/dA/610025b04c/tds_Idemitsu%205W-30%20GF-6.pdf


2011 Toyota Prius 1.8L - 207K - Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10W-30
2007 Honda Accord 2.4L - 146K - Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10W-30
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: The Critic] #5421760 05/05/20 03:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,869
The Critic Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,869


2011 Toyota Prius 1.8L - 207K - Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10W-30
2007 Honda Accord 2.4L - 146K - Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10W-30
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: The Critic] #5421768 05/05/20 03:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,887
J
JeffKeryk Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,887
All I know is, one time I accidentally grabbed the Idemitsu 0w20 instead of the M1 5w30 and dumped it into Sue's TSX.
That little K24 was never so happy.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: The Critic] #5421829 05/05/20 04:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,077
G
Gokhan Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,077
Darn, now, I have to calculate the VII content, base-oil viscosity, and base-oil quality for all these oils! LOL


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: Gokhan] #5421844 05/05/20 04:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,869
The Critic Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 21,869
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Darn, now, I have to calculate the VII content, base-oil viscosity, and base-oil quality for all these oils! LOL

I will be looking forward to your findings, thank you! cool


2011 Toyota Prius 1.8L - 207K - Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10W-30
2007 Honda Accord 2.4L - 146K - Valvoline Premium Blue Restore 10W-30
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: The Critic] #5421875 05/05/20 05:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 16
E
electricmarquis Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 16
Are they not the Subaru Syn maker for USA?


2020 Subaru STI EJ257
2019 Subaru Impreza Sport FB20
2014 Dodge Durango 3.6 Pentastar
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: The Critic] #5421889 05/05/20 05:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,285
B
buster Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,285
"Idemitsu Fully Synthetic Lineup of GF-6 Engine Oils – Beyond GF-6 standards for engine wear protection, fuel economy retention, reduced oil consumption and protection against LSPI, the individual viscosity grades provide the following.
0W-16 – More than 28% less oil consumption and over a 22% advantage on fuel economy retention over GF-6 standards
0W-20 – More than 18% engine wear protection over the new GF-6 standards
5W-20 – More than 46% less oil consumption and 21% greater engine wear protection over the new
standards
5W-30 – More than 24% fuel economy retention and 90% more stability in high heat"

https://www.aftermarketnews.com/idemitsu-lubricants-america-introduces-new-gf-6-lineup/


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: The Critic] #5421908 05/05/20 06:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,077
G
Gokhan Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,077
Here are the results:

Code
Oil	                VII    BO DV150 CCS    Noack	BOQI
                               (cP)     (cP)   (% / hr)                 

Idemitsu 0W-20 SN	5.6%	1.85	5500	11.4	56
Idemitsu 5W-20 SN	3.3%	2.14	4309	9.2	50
Idemitsu 5W-30 SN	6.3%	2.16	4540	10	44

Idemitsu 0W-16 SP	2.4%	1.93	5400	10.6	61

Idemitsu 0W-20 SP	3.8%	2.05	5700	11.6	53
Idemitsu 5W-20 SP	2.2%	2.24	5250	8.2	46
Idemitsu 5W-30 SP	3.1%	2.39	5350	8.5	44

Idemitsu have reduced the VII content and increased the base-oil viscosity with API SP. This is a good thing in terms of engine wear and engine deposits. Therefore, they have advanced their blending skills since API SN. I am particularly impressed with the base-oil viscosity of the Idemitsu 5W-30 SP, which is in the likes of ACEA C3 Euro-OEM oils with HTHS = 3.5 cP such as Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

It appears that the base-oil quality hasn't changed according to the base-oil quality index (BOQI), which means they are using the same Group III/III+ base stocks they were using in API SN. One exception is the new Idemitsu 0W-16 SP -- it appears to have some GTL or other high-quality base stock blended in the base oil according to the BOQI.

Estimated base-oil viscosity at 150 °C (BO DV150) and VII content of selected oils


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: Gokhan] #5421913 05/05/20 06:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,832
I
Imp4 Online Content
Online Content
I
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,832
Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a good thing in terms of engine wear and engine deposits. Therefore, they have advanced their blending skills since API SN. I am particularly impressed with the base-oil viscosity of the Idemitsu 5W-30 SP, which is in the likes of ACEA C3 Euro-OEM oils with HTHS = 3.5 cP such as Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30.

It appears that the base-oil quality hasn't changed according to the base-oil quality index (BOQI), which means they are using the same Group III/III+ base stocks they were using in API SN. One exception is the new Idemitsu 0W-16 SP -- it appears to have some GTL or other high-quality base stock blended in the base oil according to the BOQI

Oh brother.....
They didn't 'increase their blending skills'.
The standard was updated so they reformulated to meet the new standard.
This speaks nothing to an increase or decrease in their skill level.

Oh, and can you provide a few industry specifications that speak to the validity of the means by which BOQI is determined? Peer reviewed papers, third party independent validation, API committee review, etc.....

Thanks!!!
cheers

Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: Imp4] #5421935 05/05/20 06:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,077
G
Gokhan Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,077
Originally Posted by Imp4
Oh brother.....
They didn't 'increase their blending skills'.
The standard was updated so they reformulated to meet the new standard.
This speaks nothing to an increase or decrease in their skill level.

Oh, and can you provide a few industry specifications that speak to the validity of the means by which BOQI is determined? Peer reviewed papers, third party independent validation, API committee review, etc.....

Thanks!!!
cheers

Nope, most other blenders are actually increasing the VII content and lowering the base-oil viscosity to be able to meet the stricter fuel-economy limits of ILSAC GF-6. You need more VII for higher fuel efficiency. Therefore, Idemitsu is indeed exhibiting better blending skills than some others as far as the base-oil viscosity and VII content are concerned, as it is actually decreasing the VII content and raising the base-oil viscosity.

Both the A_Harman index and BO DV150/HTFS are original research on BITOG. So is the BOQI. You can "demand" peer review, question them, etc., etc., but they will remain as they are, since we are not being paid here to do this research.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: Gokhan] #5422000 05/05/20 07:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,832
I
Imp4 Online Content
Online Content
I
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,832
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Both the A_Harman index and BO DV150/HTFS are original research on BITOG. So is the BOQI. You can "demand" peer review, question them, etc., etc., but they will remain as they are, since we are not being paid here to do this research.

So that's a 'No', correct?

No peer review, no API committee review, no 3rd party independent validation.

I'm not 'demanding' that you do anything. I'm simply requesting that you provide something other generally accepted review of your own work or the work of another internet bulletin board member that validates the systems, theories, analysis, etc that you continually reference in your posts as if it is good science.

Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: electricmarquis] #5422094 05/05/20 09:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,443
B
bluesubie Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,443
Originally Posted by electricmarquis
Are they not the Subaru Syn maker for USA?

Yes. Although I do not know if these oils are similar to the Subaru oil. The Idemitsu site and previous data sheets never even mentioned SN+ while SoA told me that the recent Subaru oil was SN+.


'20 Subaru Outback Onyx XT | Idemitsu Zepro 0W-20
'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT | Castrol Edge 0W-40
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: Imp4] #5422809 05/06/20 04:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,077
G
Gokhan Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,077
Originally Posted by Imp4
So that's a 'No', correct?

No peer review, no API committee review, no 3rd party independent validation.

I'm not 'demanding' that you do anything. I'm simply requesting that you provide something other generally accepted review of your own work or the work of another internet bulletin board member that validates the systems, theories, analysis, etc that you continually reference in your posts as if it is good science.

If you really want to know about the theoretical background, read the threads on the subject and try to understand them instead of bickering about the validity of the deep technical aspects that are obscure to you.

The base-oil viscosity (high-temperature, full-shear (HTFS) viscosity) calculations were fully tested and verified against the test oils in the Hugh Spikes paper, and recently "another member" Boxnuts with a strong technical background helped me go over them and question certain things, which has improved the calculation:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...erature-full-shear-viscosity#Post5409199

I have showed the other tool -- the base-oil quality index (BOQI) -- to indeed predict the base-oil type of most known oils with Group I - Group IV base oils. The notion of a CCS - Noack space is well-established "in the industry," and it is frequently used. I only turned the existing notion into a simple quantitative tool. For example Group IIIa, IIIb, IIIc, and IIId oils ascending in the base-oil quality are clearly distinguished in the CCS - Noack space. You can see where in the industry it is coming from:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5406519/re-mobil-1-ap-noack#Post5406519

Even more interestingly Shannow had criticized that the lower-viscosity PAO base stocks tend to have a higher BOQI than the higher-viscosity PAO base stocks, but there was recently a very nice article about synthetic base stocks in the Lubes'n'Greases magazine, and it showed that the oxidation time, which is the primary measure of the base-oil quality, is indeed inversely proportional to CCS × Noack. The old and new PAO base stocks have almost the same Noack, but the new PAO base stock has a much lower CCS, which results in a higher BOQI ~ 1 / (CCS × Noack) and a proportionally higher oxidation time -- quantitatively verified by ExxonMobil:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...ng-base-oil-quality-index-boqi-revisited


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: The Critic] #5422846 05/06/20 05:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,285
B
buster Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 33,285
Thanks for the BOQI update Gokahn.

I'm liking their 5w20.


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Idemitsu Synthetic Oil Reformulation for API SP/ILSAC GF-6B [Re: The Critic] #5423060 05/06/20 09:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,832
I
Imp4 Online Content
Online Content
I
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 1,832
Originally Posted by Gokhan
If you really want to know about the theoretical background, read the threads on the subject and try to understand them instead of bickering about the validity of the deep technical aspects that are obscure to you.

The base-oil viscosity (high-temperature, full-shear (HTFS) viscosity) calculations were fully tested and verified against the test oils in the Hugh Spikes paper, and recently "another member" Boxnuts with a strong technical background helped me go over them and question certain things, which has improved the calculation:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...erature-full-shear-viscosity#Post5409199

I have showed the other tool -- the base-oil quality index (BOQI) -- to indeed predict the base-oil type of most known oils with Group I - Group IV base oils. The notion of a CCS - Noack space is well-established "in the industry," and it is frequently used. I only turned the existing notion into a simple quantitative tool. For example Group IIIa, IIIb, IIIc, and IIId oils ascending in the base-oil quality are clearly distinguished in the CCS - Noack space. You can see where in the industry it is coming from:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5406519/re-mobil-1-ap-noack#Post5406519

Even more interestingly Shannow had criticized that the lower-viscosity PAO base stocks tend to have a higher BOQI than the higher-viscosity PAO base stocks, but there was recently a very nice article about synthetic base stocks in the Lubes'n'Greases magazine, and it showed that the oxidation time, which is the primary measure of the base-oil quality, is indeed inversely proportional to CCS × Noack. The old and new PAO base stocks have almost the same Noack, but the new PAO base stock has a much lower CCS, which results in a higher BOQI ~ 1 / (CCS × Noack) and a proportionally higher oxidation time -- quantitatively verified by ExxonMobil:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...ng-base-oil-quality-index-boqi-revisited

So that's a 'No', correct?

No peer review, no API committee review, no 3rd party independent validation.

Last edited by Imp4; 05/06/20 09:22 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™