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Unplanned shutdowns #5421613 05/05/20 12:14 PM
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Dave Sherman Offline OP
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I've always cringed if I have to turn off an unresponsive computer, but I'm under the impression that NTFS is a little more forgiving if you have to pull the plug. Dealing with some sleep issue on my laptop where it decides to go to sleep, but nothing will wake it up. I think I've narrowed it down to a problem with GoTo Meeting, because I've checked settings and it sleeps and wakes just fine from the wireless mouse, touchpad, or keyboard unless that's running. Seems I'll just have to keep moving the mouse occasionally or make sure sleep is disabled during a meeting. It's Win10, FYI.

Since I've had to shut it off the hard way a few times, any tips on how to make sure all came back OK? Scanning the drive isn't reporting problems, event viewer just shows there was an uncontrolled shutdown. Haven't found any corrupt files or anything "lost", but anything I should look for?


2015 Honda Pilot EX AWD Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 STP filter
1977 MG Midget Valvoline VR-1 20W-50 Bosch Filter
Re: Unplanned shutdowns [Re: Dave Sherman] #5421647 05/05/20 01:00 PM
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javacontour Offline
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IIRC, NTFS is a journaling file system, meaning writes go to a journal before they are applied to the file system. Meaning there is a good chance the write gets to the disk and can be applied to the file system should an unplanned outage occur.

There is still a risk, but not a great compared to a non-journaling file system.


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: Unplanned shutdowns [Re: Dave Sherman] #5421738 05/05/20 02:36 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Have you tried holding down the power button for 5+ seconds?

Re: Unplanned shutdowns [Re: Dave Sherman] #5421939 05/05/20 06:52 PM
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HangFire Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Sherman
I've always cringed if I have to turn off an unresponsive computer, but I'm under the impression that NTFS is a little more forgiving if you have to pull the plug. Dealing with some sleep issue on my laptop where it decides to go to sleep, but nothing will wake it up. I think I've narrowed it down to a problem with GoTo Meeting, because I've checked settings and it sleeps and wakes just fine from the wireless mouse, touchpad, or keyboard unless that's running. Seems I'll just have to keep moving the mouse occasionally or make sure sleep is disabled during a meeting. It's Win10, FYI.

Since I've had to shut it off the hard way a few times, any tips on how to make sure all came back OK? Scanning the drive isn't reporting problems, event viewer just shows there was an uncontrolled shutdown. Haven't found any corrupt files or anything "lost", but anything I should look for?


NTFS not clean is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is buggy drivers that are not doing the right thing on sleep and resume. GoToMeeting is infamous for triggering the driver bugs. It could be any driver, but WiFi is the prime suspect.

Update every driver to the latest. If that's not enough, try removing the laptop vendor drivers and using the manufacturer's directly (Intel, Broadcom, etc.) or the vanilla Microsoft versions.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: Unplanned shutdowns [Re: HangFire] #5422842 05/06/20 05:19 PM
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Dave Sherman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by HangFire
Originally Posted by Dave Sherman
I've always cringed if I have to turn off an unresponsive computer, but I'm under the impression that NTFS is a little more forgiving if you have to pull the plug. Dealing with some sleep issue on my laptop where it decides to go to sleep, but nothing will wake it up. I think I've narrowed it down to a problem with GoTo Meeting, because I've checked settings and it sleeps and wakes just fine from the wireless mouse, touchpad, or keyboard unless that's running. Seems I'll just have to keep moving the mouse occasionally or make sure sleep is disabled during a meeting. It's Win10, FYI.

Since I've had to shut it off the hard way a few times, any tips on how to make sure all came back OK? Scanning the drive isn't reporting problems, event viewer just shows there was an uncontrolled shutdown. Haven't found any corrupt files or anything "lost", but anything I should look for?


NTFS not clean is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is buggy drivers that are not doing the right thing on sleep and resume. GoToMeeting is infamous for triggering the driver bugs. It could be any driver, but WiFi is the prime suspect.

Update every driver to the latest. If that's not enough, try removing the laptop vendor drivers and using the manufacturer's directly (Intel, Broadcom, etc.) or the vanilla Microsoft versions.


Thanks, I tried having Windows Update look for updates, but nothing found, even when I tried WiFi and a few other devices. Tried a third party driver updater, and it did find several updates for the USB controller, SATA controller, WiFi adapter, and a few other things. We'll see if it improves. Granted, the laptop is a Core 2 duo, but it still works well.


2015 Honda Pilot EX AWD Pennzoil Platinum 0W-20 STP filter
1977 MG Midget Valvoline VR-1 20W-50 Bosch Filter
Re: Unplanned shutdowns [Re: javacontour] #5425542 05/10/20 12:44 PM
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emg Offline
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Originally Posted by javacontour
IIRC, NTFS is a journaling file system, meaning writes go to a journal before they are applied to the file system. Meaning there is a good chance the write gets to the disk and can be applied to the file system should an unplanned outage occur.


I still remember the time when I'd spent all day and night downloading a big file over a 56k modem before the power went out, and Windows kindly decided to delete the file when it scanned the disk after rebooting.

That was XP, so it may have improved. But Windows 7 also trashes my Steam settings every time the PC loses power or locks up (hardware is getting old and cranky).

Re: Unplanned shutdowns [Re: Dave Sherman] #5425674 05/10/20 04:26 PM
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Oildudeny Offline
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I went to a chromebook and haven't looked back

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