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Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A #5418541 05/01/20 05:31 PM
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GemStater Offline OP
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Here's the scenario. I have both oil filters on hand, the Donaldson P169071 and the Fram Ultra XG8A.

I will be breaking-in a freshly rebuilt big block soon. Out of these oil filters I want the one that will capture the smallest particle size.

Donaldson's spec sheet says 99% @ 22 microns but doesn't specifically state what test method they're using. It also says Efficiency Beta 75 30 micron. Donaldson is non-responsive to my e-mail.

https://shop.donaldson.com/store/ca...uctDetails-DCI/ProductDetails-DCI.jsp.1#

Fram advertises 99%+ @ ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns.

https://www.fram.com/products/consumer-products/oil-filters/fram-ultra-syntheticsup-sup-oil-filter/

So? Which one? Flip a coin or can someone contribute to the debate?


06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L - Mobil 0W-20 AFE | Fram XG7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383 - Project car
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: GemStater] #5418559 05/01/20 05:40 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by GemStater
Donaldson's spec sheet says 99% @ 22 microns but doesn't specifically state what test method they're using. It also says Efficiency Beta 75 30 micron. Donaldson is non-responsive to my e-mail.


Beta 75 means 98.7% efficient (call it 99%). Obviously, Beta 75 at 30u isn't as good as 99% at 20u ... so their statements do not align.

Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: ZeeOSix] #5418598 05/01/20 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by GemStater
Donaldson's spec sheet says 99% @ 22 microns but doesn't specifically state what test method they're using. It also says Efficiency Beta 75 30 micron. Donaldson is non-responsive to my e-mail.


Beta 75 means 98.7% efficient (call it 99%). Obviously, Beta 75 at 30u isn't as good as 99% at 20u ... so their statements do not align.


Right! What's weird is the old Amsoil EaO used to be rated at 98.7% @ 15 microns and it was accepted that Donaldson made many of those filters. If that's true, not sure why they're own top of the line filter would filter would be less efficient?


06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L - Mobil 0W-20 AFE | Fram XG7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383 - Project car
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: GemStater] #5418602 05/01/20 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GemStater
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by GemStater
Donaldson's spec sheet says 99% @ 22 microns but doesn't specifically state what test method they're using. It also says Efficiency Beta 75 30 micron. Donaldson is non-responsive to my e-mail.


Beta 75 means 98.7% efficient (call it 99%). Obviously, Beta 75 at 30u isn't as good as 99% at 20u ... so their statements do not align.


Right! What's weird is the old Amsoil EaO used to be rated at 98.7% @ 15 microns and it was accepted that Donaldson made many of those filters. If that's true, not sure why they're own top of the line filter would filter would be less efficient?


Because Amsoil media might have been designed and made only for use on Amsoil branded filters.

Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: GemStater] #5418609 05/01/20 06:18 PM
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Cross XG8A and you get P550008. Maybe the other one is for ag equipment although don't know why they differentiate the two filters. I could guess like anyone I suppose. This one is 99 @ 40 microns using the single pass test I believe. But it is the cross for XG8A. I would use the XG and keep it simple.


Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: GemStater] #5418621 05/01/20 06:27 PM
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You will never notice a difference between the filters unless one failed. The air filter is the filter to worry about if you need to worry about something.


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: Farnsworth] #5418629 05/01/20 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Cross XG8A and you get P550008. Maybe the other one is for ag equipment although don't know why they differentiate the two filters. I could guess like anyone I suppose. This one is 99 @ 40 microns using the single pass test I believe. But it is the cross for XG8A. I would use the XG and keep it simple.



Cross PH8A = P550008 = P169071

P550008 Media Type = Cellulose

P169071 Media Type = Synthetic

But yes, for lack of consistent info from Donaldson, looking like Fram it is...


06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L - Mobil 0W-20 AFE | Fram XG7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383 - Project car
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: GemStater] #5418677 05/01/20 07:41 PM
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I would use the Donaldson for the initial fire up and buy a WIX Gold for the next 500 miles and then the Fram for the next 1000 miles.


"None of us are getting out here alive...drink that beer...eat that pizza...drive that Hot Rod"
"When others cut you down, remember where they came from."
"I don't run...........I just quietly wait"
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: oldhp] #5418702 05/01/20 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by oldhp
I would use the Donaldson for the initial fire up and buy a WIX Gold for the next 500 miles and then the Fram for the next 1000 miles.


That's an interesting formula. What's the logic behind it or is it a joke?


06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L - Mobil 0W-20 AFE | Fram XG7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383 - Project car
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: GemStater] #5418706 05/01/20 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GemStater
Originally Posted by oldhp
I would use the Donaldson for the initial fire up and buy a WIX Gold for the next 500 miles and then the Fram for the next 1000 miles.


That's an interesting formula. What's the logic behind it or is it a joke?


That maybe the strangest thing I’ve heard in a long time !!!

Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: kstanf150] #5418795 05/01/20 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kstanf150
Originally Posted by GemStater
Originally Posted by oldhp
I would use the Donaldson for the initial fire up and buy a WIX Gold for the next 500 miles and then the Fram for the next 1000 miles.


That's an interesting formula. What's the logic behind it or is it a joke?


That maybe the strangest thing I’ve heard in a long time !!!


Well, the choice seems obvious. Just putting it out there to see if I was missing something but Fram seems to be the clear winner in this application, dollar-per-dollar...

Donaldson P169071 - 99% @ 22 microns - $19.97ea

WIX/NAPA Gold 51515 - 95% @ 20 microns - $4.75ea

Fram Ultra XG8A - 99% @ 20 microns - $3.25ea


06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L - Mobil 0W-20 AFE | Fram XG7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383 - Project car
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: kstanf150] #5419429 05/02/20 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kstanf150
Originally Posted by GemStater
Originally Posted by oldhp
I would use the Donaldson for the initial fire up and buy a WIX Gold for the next 500 miles and then the Fram for the next 1000 miles.


That's an interesting formula. What's the logic behind it or is it a joke?


That maybe the strangest thing I’ve heard in a long time !!!


I was going by what he had on hand. Donaldson 1st because of quoted micron 22. Don't you always replace the oil filter after initial start up??? I would then change the oil again at 500 miles, hence the WIX. Lastly the FRAM XG because of it's filtering specs. This is what " I " would do with my $$$$ Big Block $$$$. Not a joke losing a freshly built engine because of scrimping oil / oil filter at start up. thumbsup


"None of us are getting out here alive...drink that beer...eat that pizza...drive that Hot Rod"
"When others cut you down, remember where they came from."
"I don't run...........I just quietly wait"
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: oldhp] #5420034 05/03/20 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by oldhp
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Originally Posted by GemStater
Originally Posted by oldhp
I would use the Donaldson for the initial fire up and buy a WIX Gold for the next 500 miles and then the Fram for the next 1000 miles.


That's an interesting formula. What's the logic behind it or is it a joke?


That maybe the strangest thing I’ve heard in a long time !!!


I was going by what he had on hand. Donaldson 1st because of quoted micron 22. Don't you always replace the oil filter after initial start up??? I would then change the oil again at 500 miles, hence the WIX. Lastly the FRAM XG because of it's filtering specs. This is what " I " would do with my $$$$ Big Block $$$$. Not a joke losing a freshly built engine because of scrimping oil / oil filter at start up. thumbsup


Sure! While there will be a certain amount of foreign material that washes out of a fresh rebuild and collects in the oil filter, I don’t personally subscribe to the notion that this is significant enough to overwhelm the oil filter into bypass mode and wipe out the bearings.

Seeing guys starting a fresh rebuild with bottom rung oil filters that have subpar filtering efficiency and then changing it right after break-in is nonsensical to me. In my view, when starting a new engine, it would be advantageous to use the the oil filter with the best possible filtering efficiency and continue using this same brand/model throughout interval change outs during the engines lifespan.

In this point in time, subject to change, it’s looking like the Fram XG8A is the best option for my application.

My engine will run 1000-miles with the engine break-in oil and same top performing oil filter before the first change.


06 Honda Accord EX-L 3.0L - Mobil 0W-20 AFE | Fram XG7313
02 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L - PP 5W-30 | Fram Ultra XG8A
69 Plymouth Road Runner 383 - Project car
Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: GemStater] #5420042 05/03/20 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by GemStater
Seeing guys starting a fresh rebuild with bottom rung oil filters that have subpar filtering efficiency and then changing it right after break-in is nonsensical to me. In my view, when starting a new engine, it would be advantageous to use the the oil filter with the best possible filtering efficiency and continue using this this same brand/model throughout interval change outs during the engines lifespan.


Solid thinking.

Re: Donaldson P169071 vs. Fram XG8A [Re: GemStater] #5420239 05/03/20 07:54 PM
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I've had two very good engine builder's build engines for me. Both use the same procedure. After first start up to break cam in (flat tappet) or just get engine up and running (roller lifter) checking oil pressure, leaks etc. They both say change the oil/oil filter. Cut open the filter to see what's going on. Nothing? Good. Run the engine, seating the rings, etc to 500'ish miles, change oil/oil filter. Cut open oil filter again. Still good? Now run engine like you're going to drive it. Change oil again at 1500'ish miles, cutting filter open again. Still all good? Good, run it. Both recommend and use WIX/NAPA Gold filters.
It's your engine do as you please. I would not do that, but that's me. Happy Hot Rodding!!!


"None of us are getting out here alive...drink that beer...eat that pizza...drive that Hot Rod"
"When others cut you down, remember where they came from."
"I don't run...........I just quietly wait"
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