Help me talk him out of it...

Joined
Oct 9, 2004
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Cincinnati, OH, USA
My son wants to get rid of his old XJ (in my sig) & replace it with a 2013 Challenger (not Hemi, 3.6 Pentastar) with 113K. Looking online, electrical problems like the TIPM, junky alternators, and wonky power window switches & smart window modules seem common. I told him he was going from one of the most reliable modern(-ish) vehicles Chrysler ever built (via AMC) to a risky plasticky fake muscle car, although a Hemi one would be even riskier. Help!
 
He'll regret that one very soon. Pentastar 3.6 was garbage as is the car around it. He'll be able to buy another jeep with the repair bills...
 
Can he afford it as in afford to buy then unload vehicle at a loss and buy another vehicle? Has he driven one? Does he like to work on cars in general? Does he have experience driving a RWD vehicle in the snow/ice?

If the answer to all these question are YES then I say let him do his thing.


Granted he's driving around in a 20+ yr old vehicle now.
 
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Don't forget the Challenger will be a LOT safer in literally every way. Active and passive safety, braking, handling, rollover risk, all kinds of collisions, the whole thing.

I'm not saying it'd be worth the trade. That's a personal decision. Just saying it's not like he'd be getting nothing for his money.
 
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Pentastar 3.6 was garbage

not even remotely true. It's a monster engine that makes 280+ hp and is really really reliable. Heck, they've used it for a decade now and still put it in RAMs and other vehicles. It's a winner.
 
We no nothing about your son and your relationship, finances, etc.. A teenager under your wing or a young adult on his own? Are you enabling this transaction in such a way that your son will experience no consequences if the Challenger option back fires?

If you are enabling the trade, then its all on you. I.E., if you are footing his college education then you control the reins. If your son is on his own, all you can do is point out the possible pitfalls and let him make his own way. Making mistakes is one way of learning. As much as I loved my dad, I have zero regrets not listening to him regarding my career and lifestyle choice.
 
Looks like its time for a father/son muscle car project.

Go in together and buy a classic musclecar. Not a wannabe.
 
Originally Posted by racin4ds
He'll regret that one very soon. Pentastar 3.6 was garbage as is the car around it. He'll be able to buy another jeep with the repair bills...


Wrong, where do you weasels come from?

Tell him to keep the XJ as the other vehicle has low and declining value and the XJ will always retain some value. Nothing wrong with the Pentastar but any car with over 100k on the clock will be a gamble. Any car.
 
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How old is he? If he is old enough to make these decisions then let him make them. It will be a learning experience for him one way or the other and for you as well.
 
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
My son wants to get rid of his old XJ (in my sig) & replace it with a 2013 Challenger (not Hemi, 3.6 Pentastar) with 113K. Looking online, electrical problems like the TIPM, junky alternators, and wonky power window switches & smart window modules seem common. I told him he was going from one of the most reliable modern(-ish) vehicles Chrysler ever built (via AMC) to a risky plasticky fake muscle car, although a Hemi one would be even riskier. Help!

Everyone deserves to learn for themselves. Let him do it, so long as he isn't asking you to co-sign it.
 
Originally Posted by dwcopple
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Pentastar 3.6 was garbage

not even remotely true. It's a monster engine that makes 280+ hp and is really really reliable. Heck, they've used it for a decade now and still put it in RAMs and other vehicles. It's a winner.

Agreed; outside of oil cooler issues due to the plastic cracking where the oil filter housing attaches to the aluminum body of the cooler and some issues with early model heads (which have been mitigated and warranties extended to cover it), it is one of FCA's best engines. OP - I would not hesitate to buy a vehicle with the 3.6L engine.

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=167
The left side cylinder head problem had been found in about 0.5% percent of 2011-13 vehicles with 3.6-liter V-6 Pentastar engines. Engines with cylinder head failure can be easily recognized by a ticking sound from the left side. Sometimes of them had other symptoms, including a check engine light illuminated. The failure was caused by excessive wear. In August 2012, Chrysler made the design upgrade and the problem is rarely reported now. All vehicles with 2011-13 model year 3.6L Pentastar engines have extended engine warranty on the left side cylinder head to 10 years or 150,000 miles.

Some owners complain of problems with clogged up radiators and frequent replacement of water pumps, thermostats, and oil pumps. The problem may lie in the production and preparation of an individual engine before assembly. The heads are sand-cast and undergo serious inspections for cleanliness before reaching assembly plants. But any residual sand that remains from the casting process inside the engine can also circulate through the vehicle's cooling systems, causing clogs in radiator and oil cooling system.

In general, the engine has been around for a long time and used in a lot of vehicles, so it has been well tested. Despite that they had some issues early on, the 3.6L V6 Pentastar is a great engine, one of the most reliable engines available on the market right now.
 
Originally Posted by dwcopple
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Pentastar 3.6 was garbage

not even remotely true. It's a monster engine that makes 280+ hp and is really really reliable. Heck, they've used it for a decade now and still put it in RAMs and other vehicles. It's a winner.

It's also in a monster of a car that weighs something on the order of 2 tonnes. It is adequate for daily use and a bit of light fun, nothing more. It is reliable, though, from all I've read.
 
They are a good engine. As posted above they had some issues early on, the garage I worked at saw a couple of them and immediately thought they were junk because of it, but time has proven they are pretty good.

The rest of the car I wouldn't want though, typically front ends fall apart on most Chrysler products. Quality control is an issue but it doesn't mean they are all bad. Maybe it will turn out okay. The Caravan still seems to be a really solid vehicle with the same engine.
 
Heads were an issue in that year, cooling system seems problematic as well as cams/valves. IMHO it's nothing special - an average V6 in a field of average V6s.
 
The situation doesn't really involve the car's reliability at all. Is it something he can comfortably afford (both maintenance/repairs and I'm assuming payments)? Personally, I don't think it is an intelligent idea to buy any car right now, but that's me.
 
It'll be even more fun if he routinely put anything into the XJ. The trunk and back seat of a Challenger will not compare.

Is it one of those Challengers with 18" or 20" wheels? Hope your kid has a good paper route.

Given the $ one can reasonably expect from the sale of the Jeep and a REASONABLE price for a 2013 with 113K on the odo, it could be a common and OK change for a guy to make.

If "trading the Jeep in" is a possibility you're both very much in the dark. A stinking used car dealer won't give you 35¢ for it.

If he's "getting off" on owning a Challenger he might be foolish. While a little foolish is OK when you're young, it becomes much more serious when money and egos get involved. We would have to know the particulars to offer an opinion.

Does the term "somebody's old muscle car" mean anything to you?
How 'bout, "someone else's headache"?

I too think the 3.6 is an OK engine but you cannot deny Chrysler's rep for producing junk.

A friend's son just traded in a paid for Challenger 3.6 (2015?) for a new 2018 leftover Dodge Hellcat. He's 50, without a job, living in his mother's house with a 13 year old son....and other bad things....and now has a 7 year loan for $50,000.

I screamed about this and was sharply and accurately rebuked by the members here and I understand. They are right. "Challengers are fun" was the theme.
OK, fun it is.
Can he afford it?, becomes the question. WARNING: The male thing is threatened when the answer is no.
Does the likely impending economic readjustment period bode well for such a purchase?

Sung to the tune of that famous Country/Western song....
"Fathers don't let your sons destroy their finances or possibly that of his family because he wants to get his jollys driving something more oomphful".
 
Originally Posted by Brybo86
While I doubt the jaguar is super reliable , I love the looks of them...


Jaguar? Its a Jeep Cherokee.
 
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