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2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade #5417218 04/30/20 11:02 AM
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Cacciatore Offline OP
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This is a built 6.8L Cummins engine from Freedom Racing Engines. 11k miles on the engine and 3200 on the oil. Makes about 1400hp at the crank. This truck uses the power and sees plenty of hard use.

Oil is 20w-50 from Penngrade link to oil here

Due to availability, I switched to Amsoil Dominator 20w-50 on this oil change.

Worried about the possible coolant issues in the oil and I'm considering running water instead of coolant for the summer time.

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Cacciatore; 04/30/20 11:02 AM.

2011 Cummins 1400hp
2017 Equinox
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417293 04/30/20 12:38 PM
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SteveSRT8 Offline
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Coolant? Doesn't sound good to me. Looks like wear metals are a bit high for such a short interval but inconclusive.

We've got a Cummins guy on here with a lot more experience than me! Besides you need a couple more of these to see a trend...

Last edited by SteveSRT8; 04/30/20 12:41 PM.

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Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417349 04/30/20 01:32 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by Cacciatore
Worried about the possible coolant issues in the oil and I'm considering running water instead of coolant for the summer time.

Why would you deliberately lower the boiling point by using plain water, and risk certain corrosion? If heat transfer is your concern, then just lower the coolant concentration down to the minimum allowable. If your system is clean inside then heat transfer should not be a concern.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: kschachn] #5417389 04/30/20 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Cacciatore
Worried about the possible coolant issues in the oil and I'm considering running water instead of coolant for the summer time.

Why would you deliberately lower the boiling point by using plain water, and risk certain corrosion? If heat transfer is your concern, then just lower the coolant concentration down to the minimum allowable. If your system is clean inside then heat transfer should not be a concern.


Primary reasoning would be to identify if it is actually coolant entering the system or not. If the cooling system is now water, that water would be cooked off when the truck gets up to operating temp and wouldn't leave trace elements in the oil. If there is still sodium in the oil after running water, then the cooling system is not suspect.

That was my logic, but I'm pretty new to the BITOG community so trying to learn all I can...


2011 Cummins 1400hp
2017 Equinox
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417402 04/30/20 02:13 PM
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CT8 Offline
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Call Freedom racing engines for their opinion . If there is coolant entering the engine fix the problem. Is there an coolant to oil cooler?


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417417 04/30/20 02:26 PM
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Cacciatore Offline OP
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I have spoke to them about it. It could possibly be a head gasket issue although unlikely as it is a fire-ringed head. There is an oil cooler and it's a hefty bar and plate style cooler which is not historically prone to failure


2011 Cummins 1400hp
2017 Equinox
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417450 04/30/20 03:00 PM
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ragtoplvr Offline
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Water in a diesel you risk cavitation corrosion at the bore and in the head. At a minimum use water wetter. Wet sleeve engines can be very bad on water.

Rod

Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417466 04/30/20 03:20 PM
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It's not a sleeve engine, just a 6.7 bored +.020". I will make sure to use water wetter if I go that route, thank you for the info


2011 Cummins 1400hp
2017 Equinox
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417549 04/30/20 04:55 PM
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CT8 Offline
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The problem should be addressed properly. I'll bet the engine was quite pricey


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417647 04/30/20 06:50 PM
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Zaedock Offline
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This ^


2019 Escape EB AWD/2016 KIA Optima SXL 2.0L Turbo/2012 F150 Ex-cab 5.0L
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Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417696 04/30/20 07:38 PM
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A_Harman Offline
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Cracked head?
Cracked cylinder wall? Bored .020" over plus pushing 1400 hp.
Lifting head during high boost operation?
Cylinder pressures far past design point is overstressing things.

High copper, high lead. Could be bearing problems.
14 ppm Iron per thousand miles is a pretty high wear rate. 3 ppm per thousand is considered OK.
And Iron wear rate has increased over the previous sample.
Did you cut open the filter to look for shiny Wheaties?

I think this is not a well engine.

Last edited by A_Harman; 04/30/20 07:46 PM.

2008 Dodge Ram 3500 diesel/G56
1985 Z51 Corvette track car 355/6-speed
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel/NV4500+GV
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck 307/SM465
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417718 04/30/20 08:05 PM
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mattd Offline
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Are the turbo(s) water cooled on your set up? Are you running a single or compounds?

There are a few places it could be coming from. Putting water in instead of coolant isn’t a solution. Find where the coolant is coming from. How much coolant do you have to keep adding?

Last edited by mattd; 04/30/20 08:07 PM.

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

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Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: mattd] #5417804 04/30/20 10:02 PM
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Cacciatore Offline OP
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Originally Posted by A_Harman
Cracked head?
Cracked cylinder wall? Bored .020" over plus pushing 1400 hp.
Lifting head during high boost operation?
Cylinder pressures far past design point is overstressing things.

High copper, high lead. Could be bearing problems.
14 ppm Iron per thousand miles is a pretty high wear rate. 3 ppm per thousand is considered OK.
And Iron wear rate has increased over the previous sample.
Did you cut open the filter to look for shiny Wheaties?

I think this is not a well engine.


This oil sample has about 60 WOT dyno pulls which may explain the high metal wear. It also got a new turbo halfway through the life of this oil. I did not cut open the filter. Power was also increased since the last sample which may explain the increased wear rate


Originally Posted by mattd
Are the turbo(s) water cooled on your set up? Are you running a single or compounds?

There are a few places it could be coming from. Putting water in instead of coolant isn’t a solution. Find where the coolant is coming from. How much coolant do you have to keep adding?


Oil cooled single turbo. s476/96 1.32 AR. I will stick with coolant then. I dealt with some leaking thread in freeze plugs (leaking externally) over the winter but have not lost any coolant after that issue.

The truck did sit for about 8 months without being started over the 2019 summer. I suppose there are a number of factors that could be affecting this sample. Would the recommendation be a sample in another 3k miles with normal operation and see where it stands?


2011 Cummins 1400hp
2017 Equinox
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: Cacciatore] #5417847 04/30/20 11:16 PM
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mattd Offline
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Originally Posted by Cacciatore
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Cracked head?
Cracked cylinder wall? Bored .020" over plus pushing 1400 hp.
Lifting head during high boost operation?
Cylinder pressures far past design point is overstressing things.

High copper, high lead. Could be bearing problems.
14 ppm Iron per thousand miles is a pretty high wear rate. 3 ppm per thousand is considered OK.
And Iron wear rate has increased over the previous sample.
Did you cut open the filter to look for shiny Wheaties?

I think this is not a well engine.


This oil sample has about 60 WOT dyno pulls which may explain the high metal wear. It also got a new turbo halfway through the life of this oil. I did not cut open the filter. Power was also increased since the last sample which may explain the increased wear rate


Originally Posted by mattd
Are the turbo(s) water cooled on your set up? Are you running a single or compounds?

There are a few places it could be coming from. Putting water in instead of coolant isn’t a solution. Find where the coolant is coming from. How much coolant do you have to keep adding?


Oil cooled single turbo. s476/96 1.32 AR. I will stick with coolant then. I dealt with some leaking thread in freeze plugs (leaking externally) over the winter but have not lost any coolant after that issue.

The truck did sit for about 8 months without being started over the 2019 summer. I suppose there are a number of factors that could be affecting this sample. Would the recommendation be a sample in another 3k miles with normal operation and see where it stands?


You still did not say how much coolant you’re adding. I wouldn’t drive it much without doing some digging. Pull the oil pan drain plug and pressure test the cooling system. If you see antifreeze run out, pull the oil pan and pressure test it again. Leaking freeze plugs are often a sign of another’s problem, if they’re not rotted.

If you can’t do it yourself, pay someone to do it to protect your investment

Those coolers will flood the cooling system with oil when they fail, not the other way around FWIW. So as long as you don’t have oil in the coolant I wouldn’t suspect the cooler

I hope I am wrong, but my gut is telling me you might be have an issue with a block stress fracture near a water jacket.

Last edited by mattd; 04/30/20 11:26 PM.

2007 Ford F-350 4x4 6.0 PSD

ASE Master, L1, L2
Re: 2011 Ram 2500 6.8L Penngrade [Re: mattd] #5418104 05/01/20 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mattd


You still did not say how much coolant you’re adding. I wouldn’t drive it much without doing some digging. Pull the oil pan drain plug and pressure test the cooling system. If you see antifreeze run out, pull the oil pan and pressure test it again. Leaking freeze plugs are often a sign of another’s problem, if they’re not rotted.

If you can’t do it yourself, pay someone to do it to protect your investment

Those coolers will flood the cooling system with oil when they fail, not the other way around FWIW. So as long as you don’t have oil in the coolant I wouldn’t suspect the cooler

I hope I am wrong, but my gut is telling me you might be have an issue with a block stress fracture near a water jacket.


The bolt in freeze plugs leaks were related to brittle o-rings in cold weather

I will pressure test cooling system and report back. Haven't added any coolant in the last 1500 miles but I agree there is something going on here


Last edited by Cacciatore; 05/01/20 10:13 AM.

2011 Cummins 1400hp
2017 Equinox
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