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Which gasoline has PEA? #5415588 04/28/20 12:38 PM
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painfx Offline OP
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Besides Chevron, which other gas stations uses PEA?

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415594 04/28/20 12:46 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Whether this is accurate or still correct I do not know but:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/87/i14/Gasoline-Wars.html

Quote
Hardier polybutene amine detergents arrived in the early 1970s. In 1980, Chevron patented a next-generation cleaning approach based on polyether amines (PEAs). Even though the patent has since run out, Peter Fuentes-Afflick, a senior scientist at Chevron's research center in Richmond, Calif., says no other major gasoline marketer uses PEAs.

Perhaps you could contact them and find out.


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Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415619 04/28/20 01:28 PM
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Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415625 04/28/20 01:42 PM
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y_p_w Offline
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Originally Posted by painfx
Besides Chevron, which other gas stations uses PEA?

No way of knowing really. All the requirements (EPA minimum and Top Tier) are really only for efficacy and don't require any particular detergent chemistry.

The primary use of PEA is as a curing agent for epoxies. How Chevron determined that they were suitable as a fuel detergent was probably via trial and error of different chemicals.

http://www.intermediates.basf.com/chemicals/polyurea-coatings/polyetheramines
https://www.huntsman.com/performance_products/a/Products/Amines/Polyetheramines%20%20%20JEFFAMINE_R

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415699 04/28/20 03:22 PM
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The ones close to the bathrooms. eek


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Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: kschachn] #5415742 04/28/20 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Whether this is accurate or still correct I do not know but:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/87/i14/Gasoline-Wars.html

Quote
Hardier polybutene amine detergents arrived in the early 1970s. In 1980, Chevron patented a next-generation cleaning approach based on polyether amines (PEAs). Even though the patent has since run out, Peter Fuentes-Afflick, a senior scientist at Chevron's research center in Richmond, Calif., says no other major gasoline marketer uses PEAs.

Perhaps you could contact them and find out.

Seems rather iffy to me. You can read assorted research papers and patent applications from Afton, Lubrizol, or BASF. They mention polyether amines in their development of their detergent additives. It's likely that some of the major gasoline sellers buy from the big chemical companies rather than develop themselves. And ironically enough, Chevron sells detergents via their Oronite division.

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: kschachn] #5415819 04/28/20 05:19 PM
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painfx Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Whether this is accurate or still correct I do not know but:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/87/i14/Gasoline-Wars.html

Quote
Hardier polybutene amine detergents arrived in the early 1970s. In 1980, Chevron patented a next-generation cleaning approach based on polyether amines (PEAs). Even though the patent has since run out, Peter Fuentes-Afflick, a senior scientist at Chevron's research center in Richmond, Calif., says no other major gasoline marketer uses PEAs.

Perhaps you could contact them and find out.


Thanks for the website. Most gas either have PBA or lower tier addtive as you listed. But PEA is a better additive. Looks like only Chevron's gasoline has PEA.

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415821 04/28/20 05:20 PM
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painfx Offline OP
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjUzv3Xk4zpAhW2j3IEHSlyBkkQFjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw2mTtGmEgJWQ1is7tZVtrje

For those who are interested. Gasoline are from the same source, however, not all fuel additives are created the same.

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415827 04/28/20 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by painfx
Thanks for the website. Most gas either have PBA or lower tier addtive as you listed. But PEA is a better additive. Looks like only Chevron's gasoline has PEA.

I'm skeptical. There's just way too much evidence that the big names in fuel detergent (other than Chevron) use PEA. They mention it all over their patent applications.

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: y_p_w] #5415836 04/28/20 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by painfx
Thanks for the website. Most gas either have PBA or lower tier addtive as you listed. But PEA is a better additive. Looks like only Chevron's gasoline has PEA.

I'm skeptical. There's just way too much evidence that the big names in fuel detergent (other than Chevron) use PEA. They mention it all over their patent applications.


I am here to ask the question. What other gasoline brands have PEA in their gasoline?

Do you know any?

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415875 04/28/20 06:23 PM
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y_p_w Offline
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Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by painfx
Thanks for the website. Most gas either have PBA or lower tier addtive as you listed. But PEA is a better additive. Looks like only Chevron's gasoline has PEA.

I'm skeptical. There's just way too much evidence that the big names in fuel detergent (other than Chevron) use PEA. They mention it all over their patent applications.


I am here to ask the question. What other gasoline brands have PEA in their gasoline?

Do you know any?

It's proprietary unless they want to put it out in their marketing materials. But it's well known that several aftermarket additive makes use PEA. Red Line chooses to put it in their list of ingredients in their MSDS even though PEA is generally regarded as safe and could be left out as a "trade secret".

https://gumout.com/our-ingredients/
https://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/RL%20SI-1%20MSDS%2012-12.pdf

But if you want to know what's in your pump fuel - that's typically a trade secret. However, I'd be surprised if only Chevron fuels had PEA in the additive package. PEA might not even be used as a detergent.

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415886 04/28/20 06:32 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by painfx
Thanks for the website. Most gas either have PBA or lower tier addtive as you listed. But PEA is a better additive. Looks like only Chevron's gasoline has PEA.

But on the other hand, what evidence is there that Chevron's additive is really better than say, NiTRO+ from Shell or Synergy from ExxonMobil? How would you know PEA is "best"?


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Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: kschachn] #5415903 04/28/20 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by painfx
Thanks for the website. Most gas either have PBA or lower tier addtive as you listed. But PEA is a better additive. Looks like only Chevron's gasoline has PEA.

But on the other hand, what evidence is there that Chevron's additive is really better than say, NiTRO+ from Shell or Synergy from ExxonMobil? How would you know PEA is "best"?


Did you read the article I posted below your reponse?

It states PEA has better cleaning abilities that does not leave behind deposits. Versus the PBA or PIB they calls it.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjUzv3Xk4zpAhW2j3IEHSlyBkkQFjAAegQIARAC&usg=AOvVaw2mTtGmEgJWQ1is7tZVtrje

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5415917 04/28/20 06:59 PM
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y_p_w Offline
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The article that you cited doesn't really say anything other than Top Tier seems to result in more cleanliness than non Top Tier. It does mention that PEA does well for cleaning combustion chamber deposits but is less effective for other deposits. Simply using PEA isn't the be all and end all. It's possible to just use more of something else. And if another pump fuel additive has PEA, you're not likely to know because other than Chevron nobody else really markets it other than aftermarket additive sellers.

Re: Which gasoline has PEA? [Re: painfx] #5416067 04/28/20 11:28 PM
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y_p_w Offline
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Originally Posted by painfx
Did you read the article I posted below your reponse?

It states PEA has better cleaning abilities that does not leave behind deposits. Versus the PBA or PIB they calls it.

It doesn't say that. It mentions the strength and weaknesses of each kind. It's pretty obvious that to create an effective detergent additive package, it would require a combination of different detergent types. Here's the link for anyone who had difficulties:

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Fuel-Quality-Full-Report.pdf

Quote
Various additives such as metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, oxygenates, and anti-oxidants are also included in gasoline. Of specific interest are detergents that reduce or prevent fuel injector and intake valve deposits. Examples include polyether amines and polyisobutylene-based (PIB) compounds such as (PIB)-Mannichs, (PIB)-amines, and (PIB)-succinimides.

The effectiveness of each detergent is different depending on the type of deposit. Polyether amines in general are effective at controlling combustion chamber deposits, but less effective with intake valve and fuel injector deposits. Both PIB-amines and PIB-Mannichs are effective at controlling intake valve deposits and slightly less effective at preventing fuel injector deposits. PIB-succinimides are moderately effective against port fuel injector deposits, but relatively ineffective at controlling intake valve deposits [7].


Whether or not it's got PEA is irrelevant compared to how effective the entire package is.

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