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How to test for router issues? #5414179 04/27/20 12:17 AM
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We have 75M up/down Fios, and it has been pretty good throughout all the demand of late. It will throttle down, especially download speed, but it seems pretty reliable. That said, occasionally we will get stoppages or dropped connections. Sometimes the devices show loss of WiFi or cabled connections (tv is connected by cat 6), other times not, just stoppages of date transfer in streaming media,mormrewuestsmover wifimto get to

Ive looked at the router logs, it does say once per hour that the internet is disconnected and then reconnected within 1s. Not sure if that is “renewing lease” between the Fios box (which just outputs cat 6 to the router), or if this is a sign of a sporadic connection. The disconnect/reconnect is at the 13 minutes on the hour, every hour. But the times when either the devices lose connection, or else the internet becomes unresponsive for a time, are throughout the day and random. It does seem like it gets worse after some heavy use, like a lot of video streaming, or a lot of video chatting. My wife was doing video recording over the internet, and each time she got to a bit over 10 minutes, the connection would drop. That said, we can streak UHD movies to the tv without pause or throttling, for hours. So not sure if perhaps it is more upload-related? Can’t really tell.

Our router is a netgear nighthawk. It’s maybe a year old and has the latest firmware. I do power cycle it occasionally. I’m not sure it does anything specifically, besides reboot. QoS is not enabled.

Recommendation?

Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5414190 04/27/20 01:04 AM
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Are you running both 2.4 and 5ghz? Is it happening on both? I have both mine named separately, one is “mywifiname” and the other is “mywifiname-5” so I can manually select either or, but both use the same password. I know my microwave will cause a dropout on the 2.4, but no issues on 5. Someone else’s router/IoT device could be blasting something out every hour causing issues in your end.

Also, change your DNS if you haven’t already. I use Cloudflare (1.1.1.1), but google’s are also pretty good (8.8.8.8). I always had issues with Comcast’s and my previous ISP’s default DNS. Might help, doubt it but worth a shot.

I’m running a Nighthawk RAX35.

What does your modem log look like? Any T3 or T4 time-outs (those might be a Comcast specific error though, not sure)?


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Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5414290 04/27/20 07:09 AM
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Can check for answers over on https://www.dslreports.com/forum/vzfiber.
Not discouraging you looking for help here though.
The other place does have practicing techs volunteering time on their site. Sometimes they can be valuable.

Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5414320 04/27/20 07:53 AM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted by JHZR2
QoS is not enabled.

If you suspect issues are with upload, then do try to experiment with QoS. QoS helps with buffer bloat.

The DSLreports test can help test for buffer bloat:
https://www.dslreports.com/speedtest

With that said, I'm not sure that that in itself is responsible for dropped connections. Do things improve right after you reboot the router?

Can you look into the logs of your broadband modem, or do you not have one because it's FIOS/Ethernet? Depending on the specific model of your router, you could try aftermarket firmware. A lot of people complain about the stability of Netgear's own firmware. Thankfully, there are a lot of alternatives out there. I'm running FreshTomato on mine, but there are many others.


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Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5414370 04/27/20 08:41 AM
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For test purposes you could connect one computer directly to the ONT with no router. If the :00 and :13 dropouts persist it's definitely an ISP problem.

After doing this you will want to wipe the disk and reinstall the OS because it was wide open to everything on the Internet.

Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5414381 04/27/20 08:58 AM
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The loss of connection alerts are the biggest tell here from devices in the LAN, because even if the WAN connection is bouncing on the ISP side, it won't bounce a LAN client. If you are getting a hardware disconnect message from the TV on your ethernet link, there's likely something filling its shorts in the hardware it is connected to. A couple easy ways to check this, if it is happening regularly:

Do you have access to a cheap switch? Put the switch between the TV and the router, see if it eliminates the error. If it does, then you know the actual link was being bounced by your router. That typically points to a hardware error, but could also be software related on the router.

If you confirm the above, before replacing it, I'd do what QP recommended, load some aftermarket firmware on the unit and see if it solves the issue, if it doesn't, you know the hardware is headed south and it is time to get a new one.


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Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5414606 04/27/20 12:32 PM
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Problem with Fios box? May be it gets hot?


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Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5415959 04/28/20 07:55 PM
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Ok, some answers....

I am running 2.4 and 5GHz. The 2.4 is only for a couple things, all computers, tablets and phones connect on the 5GHz.

I do run the cloudflare DNS servers. I run the warp app on our phones, but the typical speed through has been poor lately.

We do not have cable TV, and so the FiOs comes straight from a fiber to cat 6 via the ONT, straight to the router.

It is intermittent enough that hooking straight to the ONT wouldn’t guarantee a drop any specific time.

Rebooting (power cycling) the router seems to help for a time, I’m not sure I can reflash mine with new firmware, I had read that this capability was blocked in recent Netgear firmware updates.

I don’t have a switch, and the tv dropout is also sporadic.

I had the ONT moved from outside to a small unit mounted on a joist in my basement. So always cool and dark. No issues I can tell.




What’s the current recommendation for a good router if I end up wanting to change this out?

Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5415979 04/28/20 08:22 PM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted by JHZR2
I’m not sure I can reflash mine with new firmware, I had read that this capability was blocked in recent Netgear firmware updates.
Which router model and firmware version do you have?

There are workarounds, for example on DD-WRT:
https://wiki.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Netgear_R7000

Quote
What’s the current recommendation for a good router if I end up wanting to change this out?

Anything from Asus is usually pretty solid, for example:
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-Dual-Band-AiMesh-Router-AC1900/dp/B00FB45SI4


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Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5415999 04/28/20 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JHZR2
What’s the current recommendation for a good router if I end up wanting to change this out?


Depends on the budget TBH. Would you be open to the idea of a separate firewall/wireless setup?

For an AIO I'd say a Meraki Z3, but it's probably a bit pricey for a home unit: https://www.cdw.com/product/cisco-m...y-wireless-router-802.11/4829818?pfm=srh
On top of the hardware, you'd need a subscription: https://www.cdw.com/product/cisco-m...se-3-years-3-years-enter/4829825?pfm=srh

Alternatively, you could get a less expensive firewall and just add an access point.
Aruba AP11: https://www.cdw.com/product/hpe-aruba-instant-on-ap11-us-wireless-access-point/5638020?enkwrd=Aruba
Watchguard Firebox T15: https://www.cdw.com/product/watchgu...-1-year-standard-support/4907215?pfm=srh

You'd need a power injector or a small PoE switch to run the AP, but it decouples your wireless from your routing/firewall gear, which I'm a fan of, but some aren't.


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Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: Quattro Pete] #5416000 04/28/20 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by JHZR2
QoS is not enabled.

If you suspect issues are with upload, then do try to experiment with QoS. QoS helps with buffer bloat.

The DSLreports test can help test for buffer bloat:
https://www.dslreports.com/speedtest

With that said, I'm not sure that that in itself is responsible for dropped connections. Do things improve right after you reboot the router?

Can you look into the logs of your broadband modem, or do you not have one because it's FIOS/Ethernet? Depending on the specific model of your router, you could try aftermarket firmware. A lot of people complain about the stability of Netgear's own firmware. Thankfully, there are a lot of alternatives out there. I'm running FreshTomato on mine, but there are many others.



My wife had issues with streaming video upload with some things she was trying to record with Google Meet. After a time, the connection would drop and the recording would fail. Generally, Ive had very consistent luck with upload.

I thought I had 75mbps, but Im thinking it might only be 50. Regardless, its sufficiently fast for most anything necessary, and its not clear that these issues are related to raw speed.

So I went on to the site you linked to, and had a number of issues getting it to work. Granted, Im doing this on and typing from my 2010 MacBook Air with a C2D processor and 4GB of RAM, FWIW...

A number of times it would fail on upload.

[Linked Image]

Finally when it worked, it seemed like things were OK.
[Linked Image]

But it did take me a number of tries, because Id get failures like this a lot. Not sure if this is due to my computer though (ran on Safari and the latest version of Firefox).

[Linked Image]

I screen captured the ones above because it was the one case where buffer bloat was not checked because of latency. Not sure why. Usually it was fast, with the highest spikes around 110-120.
[Linked Image]

Strangely, once it was able to rate buffer bloat, it gave my speed a worse score than before when it wasnt tested due to being excessive...
[Linked Image]

So then I did it on my phone. It’s connected to the same 5GHz WiFi.
[Linked Image]


Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5416012 04/28/20 09:22 PM
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Do those upload tests look equally bad from your wife's computer?


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Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5416042 04/28/20 10:03 PM
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Equally bad? Sorry, whats bad about them?

63 Mbps is like 7.8MB/s, Im not sure whats bad about that?

Assuming my memory is correct that we have a 50Mbps fiber optic connection, Id say 63 is pretty good...

And if Im being dense, and you mean the failures to upload - that is just because there's something funky with FF. I read it in the comments related to the error.

Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: JHZR2] #5416055 04/28/20 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JHZR2
Equally bad? Sorry, whats bad about them?

Very high/inconsistent latency figures and a buffer bloat grade of C is bad. It means you're experiencing heavy congestion on the way out of your network, which is bad for things like VOIP and video conferencing. Again, try turning on QoS in your router and see if it helps at all.

Also, try connecting to your router via ethernet cable instead of wi-fi and re-run the test, just to see if it's your router's wi-fi radio that's causing problems.

Quote
And if Im being dense, and you mean the failures to upload - that is just because there's something funky with FF. I read it in the comments related to the error.

Can you try a different browser?


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Re: How to test for router issues? [Re: Quattro Pete] #5416074 04/29/20 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Equally bad? Sorry, whats bad about them?

Very high/inconsistent latency figures and a buffer bloat grade of C is bad. It means you're experiencing heavy congestion on the way out of your network, which is bad for things like VOIP and video conferencing. Again, try turning on QoS in your router and see if it helps at all.

Also, try connecting to your router via ethernet cable instead of wi-fi and re-run the test, just to see if it's your router's wi-fi radio that's causing problems.

Quote
And if Im being dense, and you mean the failures to upload - that is just because there's something funky with FF. I read it in the comments related to the error.

Can you try a different browser?


Ok will do. Regarding the other browser, I did run safari as well. Both were spotty. Will try on newer computers tomorrow.

Regarding QoS and heavy congestion on the way out of the network - I ran these tests at 10pm, I was the only person awake. There’s little reason that there would be high traffic outbound from my house/network. Is there a good tool to use to determine who/what might be using high levels of resources?

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