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The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video #5412155 04/24/20 05:04 PM
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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412202 04/24/20 06:46 PM
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mPAO is not really a base stock. It's an alternative type of viscosity-index improver (VII). ExxonMobil is probably right that it's more oxidatively stable than a conventional VII.

It experiences temporary and permanent shear like a conventional VII does; therefore, it would be misleading to think of it as a "neat" (VII-free) base stock.


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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: Gokhan] #5412203 04/24/20 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
mPAO is not really a base stock. It's an alternative type of viscosity-index improver (VII). ExxonMobil is probably right that it's more oxidatively stable than a conventional VII.

It experiences temporary and permanent shear like a conventional VII does; therefore, it would be misleading to think of it as a "neat" (VII-free) base stock.


I was curious about that too. So blends that contain mPAO are likely using it as an additive or for VI purposes.


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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412214 04/24/20 06:52 PM
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MPAO is used in many high end race oils at 10-30% concentration to improve oxidation resistance, move the flashpoint higher, and improve shear stability. I know the concentration in the oil used in many NASCAR cup engines and after 500 miles at 8000+ rpm and 700+hp, the KV100 is still rock solid. These oils also contain >10% POE.


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412218 04/24/20 06:55 PM
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With a VI of up to 241 the elite does get blended with normal SpectraSyn

Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: RDY4WAR] #5412221 04/24/20 06:56 PM
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And industrial gear oils to manage heavy loads without frequent shut downs

Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412268 04/24/20 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by buster
I was curious about that too. So blends that contain mPAO are likely using it as an additive or for VI purposes.

I think mPAO is primarily used as an alternative to a conventional VII. It temporarily and permanently shears somewhat, perhaps less than a conventional VII does, depending on its molecular weight. I wouldn't expect it as to be as thermally stable as a regular, low-molecular-weight PAO, but it should be more thermally stable than a conventional VII. However, it probably costs a lot more than a conventional VII. If it didn't, chances are that everybody would be using it for multigrade-oil formulations.


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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412541 04/25/20 07:12 AM
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mPAO is a base oil, it's just used in small amounts.


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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412559 04/25/20 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by buster
mPAO is a base oil, it's just used in small amounts.

OK, you're right -- it has a very low pour point. SpectraSyn Ultra high-viscosity PAO is a lot less shear-stable than SpectraSyn Elite mPAO.

I now understand why mPAO is not desirable in engine-oil formulations. Unlike a VII it doesn't shear and lower the viscosity in the cold-cranking simulator (CCS) test, which is a high-shear test; therefore, an oil formulated with more than a few percent of mPAO would fail the W rating of its SAE viscosity. It is used in racing-oil formulations because they don't care about the W rating for them.

ExxonMobil synthetic-blending guide has some examples of engine-oil formulations with small mPAO amounts. You can see that even a small amount of mPAO increases the CCS significantly without boosting the viscosity index sufficiently, which wouldn't be the case for a VII.

https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/...lubricant-base-stocks-formulations-guide

Chevron makes it as well.

https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...AOs%20High%20Viscosity%20Base%20Oils.pdf


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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412575 04/25/20 08:31 AM
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cheers


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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412621 04/25/20 09:45 AM
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So, forgive my non-chemist mind here, but looking at page 5 of the Chevron PPT would lead me to believe that any oil with a VI above 170 is using a good portion of mPAO? This would then lead one to reason that mPAO is the main reason we typically see Noack increase WRT VI.

Do oils with regular PAO do better on Noack test than mPAO? Not that I buy into all of it, but that information would be good for the GDI folks who think Noack is the end-all, be-all of oils for their engines.


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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: Gokhan] #5412631 04/25/20 09:51 AM
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They are on the thick side too … which is what they were comparing. Curious if anyone knows the percentage that Driven Racing is using ?

We talk cars, SUV, LT’s and stuff like that … but a gearbox on a cement grinder lives a tough life … hence often used by Mobil Industrial Lubricants division.

Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5412842 04/25/20 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
So, forgive my non-chemist mind here, but looking at page 5 of the Chevron PPT would lead me to believe that any oil with a VI above 170 is using a good portion of mPAO? This would then lead one to reason that mPAO is the main reason we typically see Noack increase WRT VI.

Do oils with regular PAO do better on Noack test than mPAO? Not that I buy into all of it, but that information would be good for the GDI folks who think Noack is the end-all, be-all of oils for their engines.

Oh, no, I doubt any engine oil, other than racing oils, uses mPAO. Even if it does, the amount would have to be very small to still meet the W spec, and you wouldn't see much effect other than a small boost in the viscosity.

You obtain a higher VI by putting more VII. This also requires the base oil to be thinner, which in turn increases the Noack. It's not necessarily bad news for GDI engines, as it's the base-oil quality, not the Noack, that really matters since the intake-valve deposits are caused by the liquid PCV mist, not distilled vapor.


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Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5412877 04/25/20 01:54 PM
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MPAO is used in some "street" oils outside of the racing realm. The concentration is <20%. In the racing world though, the main use is to improve shear stability and increase the flash point. The bulk of those oils are group III for better additive response.


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: The enhanced oxidative stability of mPAO base stocks tech video [Re: buster] #5413021 04/25/20 05:15 PM
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Good posts. thumbsup

Driven DI line contains mPAO.


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