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Need Help On Info About Oils #5409986 04/22/20 02:00 AM
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moonlightblue Offline OP
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Hello everyone,

After reading alot about oils and endless discussions I am still unable to understand how to know which oil is PAO and which is GTL as the oil makers always hide this info, and make people fall in stylish canisters and letterings...

Have oil consumption problem on my 2010 gasoline audi 1.8 TFSI, and using c3 5w30 liqui moly toptec 4200 oil with vw504 approval. Want to reduce it with a thicker oil.

Options are so limited where I live there is no castrol a3b4 0w40 I can buy from any trusted seller.

So decided to choose mobil 1 0w40 but its not produced anymore as it has the crappy thinner version of 0w40 FS.

There are 100s of pages of discussion about 0w40 FS and I have not seen any kind of feedback for TFSI or for any car. I have read alot about the 0w40 FS and could not find the information I needed.

Option 1 Mobil1 0w40 FS (as I understand it is no PAO or synthetic anymore)

Option 2 is Liqui Moly Molygen 5w40. (Liqui never tells that it is fully synthetic or PAO anywhere) What is this oil made of? Only green color paint and lots of advertisement is just steering me away from the brand rather than loving it as they hide the real specs.

Option 3 Shell Helix Ultra 0w40 a3b4 which comes with vw502 as well.

Option4 Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 a3b4 which comes with both vw502 and LL01.

I am also not sure if those two Shells are fully sythetic and PAO or not.

Could you please highlight me, and let me know about what are those 4 oils based on? And which one would be the thickest a3b4 which will help to reduce the oil consumption best?

Many thanks in advance.

Last edited by moonlightblue; 04/22/20 02:01 AM.
Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: moonlightblue] #5409988 04/22/20 02:27 AM
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blufeb95 Online Content
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Shell Helix Ultra should primarily be GTL, Shell invested billions into GTL and here in the states their Pennzoil Platinum line is known to be primarily GTL and is sold as Full Synthetic, Those Shell Helix Ultra grades you mentioned are sold as Pennzoil Platinum Euro in the US.

Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: moonlightblue] #5410016 04/22/20 05:19 AM
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OilUzer Offline
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while you are waiting for the US experts to respond and/or wake-up grin2 , i think @Gokhan has a spread sheet which show the pao % of bunch of oils if you search the site. Not sure if it includes your oils or not.

sounds like you want more pao rather than avoiding it. No?
Based on my experience with some of my older cars, they don't do well with synthetic. I assume the more the pao, the more "synthetic" the oil is ...
Your car is not as old of my older cars but it's something to consider or try.

oil cannot solve all the problems. Maybe try a thicker and lower Noack oil. For example instead of 5W30 try 10W30 if you meet the W spec. Higher pao oils should typically have lower Noack too.

One of my cars burns the least amount of oil with M1 10W30 EP.

Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: moonlightblue] #5410029 04/22/20 06:06 AM
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SR5 Offline
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Shell Helix Ultra should be a GTL based full synthetic. It should have “PurePlus” on the front, which is a marketing term for GTL.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Valvoline DuraBlend 10W40 SN & A3/B4 semi-synthetic + Valvoline V06 synblend media filter
Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: moonlightblue] #5410031 04/22/20 06:11 AM
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kschachn Offline
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That's quite a first post full of a lot of assorted stuff.

You say you wish to reduce oil consumption by using a higher grade oil, but then delve into a discussion (complete with oil companies hiding stuff, and that Mobil 1 0W-40 is a "crappy" oil). Which is it? If you wish to try a different grade than your current 5W-30, then find one that has the approval required by your vehicle and try it. The base stock composition is largely irrelevant to that discussion, but I will say that within the VW approval you won't find a massively thicker oil since VW specifies an HTHS for the approval and that will make the various oils similar to each other.

Originally Posted by moonlightblue
Option 2 is Liqui Moly Molygen 5w40. (Liqui never tells that it is fully synthetic or PAO anywhere) What is this oil made of? Only green color paint and lots of advertisement is just steering me away from the brand rather than loving it as they hide the real specs.

That particular oil hides little in their PDS. They say the following:

Quote
LIQUI MOLY ALSO RECOMMENDS THIS PRODUCT FOR VEHICLES OR ASSEMBLIES FOR WHICH THE FOLLOWING SPECIFICATIONS OR ORIGINAL PART NUMBERS ARE REQUIRED:
ACEA A3
ACEA B4
API SN
BMW Longlife-01 (bis MJ 2018)
Fiat 9.55535-H2
Fiat 9.55535-N2
Fiat 9.55535-Z2
MB 229.5
Opel GM-LL-B-025
Porsche A40
Renault RN 0700
Renault RN 0710
VW 502 00
VW 505 00

Which means that it has no approvals at all. It is recommended for those approvals but that's as far as it goes. Doesn't mean it won't work in those applications but they are't hiding anything.

What do you really want here? Just to reduce consumption? If so, then try another oil such as the Shell Helix. That is one of the best oils on the market and carries the approval you need.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: moonlightblue] #5410038 04/22/20 06:29 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Your engine is a known oil burner due to a manufacturing defect. Either buy the cheapest oil and just keep adding it as needed or have the engine repaired. I know this isn't what you want to hear but it is what it is.

https://metropolitan.fi/entry/magazine-uncovers-reason-for-audi-engines-high-oil-consumption

http://casestudies.atlanticmotorcar.com/audi-engine-oil-consumption-correction/

Good Luck

Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 04/22/20 06:45 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: moonlightblue] #5410043 04/22/20 06:38 AM
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PimTac Offline
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2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: PimTac] #5410072 04/22/20 07:29 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Wow I missed that one. Thanks for the memory refresh.

One of those endless question posters...


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: moonlightblue] #5410083 04/22/20 07:40 AM
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ZZman Offline
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It is really not important. Most oils are a mix of different base oils to reach performance criteria. Just as important or more so is the additive package and total overall oil blend.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Any high quality name brand Syn Oil is good stuff. If you feel you want the best or specialty oil run a Amsoil, Redline etc....


2005 Toyota Avalon XLS 3.5 motor
2014 Ford Fusion 2.5 motor
Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: PimTac] #5410085 04/22/20 07:42 AM
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LoneRanger Offline
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Originally Posted by PimTac
It’s deja vu all over again.




and ... "You can observe a lot by just watching."

Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: PimTac] #5410161 04/22/20 09:16 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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When one doesn't like the answer just ask again!


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: PimTac] #5410330 04/22/20 12:43 PM
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moonlightblue Offline OP
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It is up to you but questions are different.

Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: kschachn] #5410333 04/22/20 12:46 PM
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moonlightblue Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kschachn
That's quite a first post full of a lot of assorted stuff.

You say you wish to reduce oil consumption by using a higher grade oil, but then delve into a discussion (complete with oil companies hiding stuff, and that Mobil 1 0W-40 is a "crappy" oil). Which is it? If you wish to try a different grade than your current 5W-30, then find one that has the approval required by your vehicle and try it. The base stock composition is largely irrelevant to that discussion, but I will say that within the VW approval you won't find a massively thicker oil since VW specifies an HTHS for the approval and that will make the various oils similar to each other.

Originally Posted by moonlightblue
Option 2 is Liqui Moly Molygen 5w40. (Liqui never tells that it is fully synthetic or PAO anywhere) What is this oil made of? Only green color paint and lots of advertisement is just steering me away from the brand rather than loving it as they hide the real specs.

That particular oil hides little in their PDS. They say the following:

Quote
LIQUI MOLY ALSO RECOMMENDS THIS PRODUCT FOR VEHICLES OR ASSEMBLIES FOR WHICH THE FOLLOWING SPECIFICATIONS OR ORIGINAL PART NUMBERS ARE REQUIRED:
ACEA A3
ACEA B4
API SN
BMW Longlife-01 (bis MJ 2018)
Fiat 9.55535-H2
Fiat 9.55535-N2
Fiat 9.55535-Z2
MB 229.5
Opel GM-LL-B-025
Porsche A40
Renault RN 0700
Renault RN 0710
VW 502 00
VW 505 00

Which means that it has no approvals at all. It is recommended for those approvals but that's as far as it goes. Doesn't mean it won't work in those applications but they are't hiding anything.

What do you really want here? Just to reduce consumption? If so, then try another oil such as the Shell Helix. That is one of the best oils on the market and carries the approval you need.


I got confused, so Liqui Moly Molygen 5w40 does not have LL01 and Vw502? As far as I know from their local website,

Molygen 5w40 has LL01 and Vw502. Am I wrong? Sorry but I am not an oil expert, so I am asking .

Another question about Molygen 5w40. Why they write Fully Synthetic on some canisters and Synthese Tech on some canisters of the exactly same Molygen 5w40 oil. It is very confusing as well.

Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: ZZman] #5410338 04/22/20 12:52 PM
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moonlightblue Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ZZman
It is really not important. Most oils are a mix of different base oils to reach performance criteria. Just as important or more so is the additive package and total overall oil blend.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Any high quality name brand Syn Oil is good stuff. If you feel you want the best or specialty oil run a Amsoil, Redline etc....


Dont have Amsoil or Redline here. Options are very limited. Even dont have Castrol Edge 0w40 a3b4 as most cars are diesel here unfortunately.

Re: Need Help On Info About Oils [Re: moonlightblue] #5410341 04/22/20 12:56 PM
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moonlightblue Offline OP
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As mobil lost the LL01 and got thinner it is appearing as 0w40 FS is not as good as 0w40 in regards to reducing oil consumption.

Do any of you have any good experience with Mobil 0w40 FS on any TFSI or on any oil consuming car?

Could you also tell if Shell Helix Ultra 5w40 (a3b4) with LL01 & Vw502 is thicker and better than Mobil 0w40 FS?

I really would like to know this as I really do not understand anything from specs.

Last edited by moonlightblue; 04/22/20 12:57 PM.
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