What’s with this rifling?

JHZR2

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I'm a fan of the M1917 revolver, and came upon a modern S&W 22-4 model of 1917. Not quite like my real M1917, but an interesting item. Color case hardened frame too.

But looked down the barrel... what gives with this rifling?

[Linked Image]


Is this tooling marks? Cutting marks? Cleaning marks? A barrel that got away without being lapped smooth?

The lands are smooth. It's dirty in there but doesn't look like it has been shot much.

Thanks!
 
Might just be the way it was machined, and normal for that gun. Do some Googling to see what's out there. If it's normal, I'd think you could find some talk about it on the 'net.

One thing for sure ... the bullets are really locked into that rifling when screaming down the barrel.
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I had a similar issue with shooting some poorly jacketed ( i don't remember what brand but it was a bulk box) .22 ammo in my Walther. Rounds hitting the target all over the place at 20 feet, some sideways, by how the paper looked.

It was lead build up . It was so tight i was lucky not to have blown up the barrel. I could not get a .22 brush in it. I had to buy a .17 brush and start with that, and even that was hard. I don't brush my barrels, but i had no choice in that case. Now i only shoot quality jacketed ammo.
 
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Hmmm... thanks. I never shoot straight lead, synthetic jacket or FMJ for me. Perhaps that's why I've never seen such a thing.
 
Originally Posted by JHZR2
Hmmm... thanks. I never shoot straight lead, synthetic jacket or FMJ for me. Perhaps that's why I've never seen such a thing.



Just powder coat them using the Shake n Bake method. They don't always come out looking like they're plated but there's always enough to keep the lead where it belongs. I've been using nothing but Soft lead with no more hardening then coming straight out of the mold into a dish of water lately. They are light to moderate loads but no sign of lead anywhere. The rounds I've salvaged still have powder coat in the lands Intact.
 
I would guess it is tool marks.Then the basic question how does the gun shoot. You guy think brush marks?
 
No way this is lead fouling. This is the way the gun was made. Probably before they figured out it would lead to extra deposits in the grooves. I'd say to keep this one very clean in the future and I'd also venture that it is rather rare. Send that picture to the NRA hopefully it wil show up in American Rifleman. I'd love to hear what they have to say about it!
 
It's ruined. I'll give you $50 for it if you pay shipping.
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I have never seen anything like this. A little Hoppes 9 and some elbow grease may
solve the "problem." A very famous tribologist likes Butch's Bore Shine. I got some
at his recommendation. Do NOT sniff the vapors!!! LOL
 
Originally Posted by spasm3
I had a similar issue with shooting some poorly jacketed ( i don't remember what brand but it was a bulk box) .22 ammo in my Walther. Rounds hitting the target all over the place at 20 feet, some sideways, by how the paper looked.

It was lead build up . It was so tight i was lucky not to have blown up the barrel. I could not get a .22 brush in it. I had to buy a .17 brush and start with that, and even that was hard. I don't brush my barrels, but i had no choice in that case. Now i only shoot quality jacketed ammo.

I've had this happen to a .22. I'm not going to explain how I know, but my advice is do not use steel wool to scrub the lead out of the barrel. Steel wool scratches stainless barrels. Use bronze wool, you can get it from Brownells and it's very soft, which won't scratch your barrel. Many things I know I've learned the hard way.
 
I leaded up a 22 a while back, my googling led me to use small pieces of Chore Boy brand copper scrubbing pads to gently clean out the lead. I had long shards of lead come out. Make sure to get the specific pure copper scouring pads, similar to bronze wool, I believe the copper won't scratch your barrel.

To my untrained eye, the ridges in the rifling look like tooling marks, they just seem to evenly spaced to be anything else. Although, I suppose frequent brushing with bristles too hard may cause that too.
 
You can use the bronze chore boy scrub pads from the grocery store wrapped around a nylon or bronze brush to scrub that out. Get ahold of some Lewis de leader or mix up some vinegar/peroxide (only for a stainless barrel), plug the end of the barrel and fill it up, let it soak for 5 minutes and then scrub. Check your progress and repeat, 2 rounds of that and you'll know if it's machine marks or lead.
 
Peroxide and Vinegar will effortlessly de-lead barrels but creates an extremely toxic waste product that has to be disposed of properly.
 
Quote
Peroxide and Vinegar will effortlessly de-lead barrels but creates an extremely toxic waste product that has to be disposed of properly.


WOW, that's a new one for me! Do you know the exact chemical reaction? Or at least get me close so I know what's going on.
Like Salt and Baking Soda. People swear it works, but for the life of me I don't understand the reaction between two relatively inert and harmless products.

Sorry, I'm into details.
 
Originally Posted by JohnG
Quote
Peroxide and Vinegar will effortlessly de-lead barrels but creates an extremely toxic waste product that has to be disposed of properly.


WOW, that's a new one for me! Do you know the exact chemical reaction? Or at least get me close so I know what's going on.
Like Salt and Baking Soda. People swear it works, but for the life of me I don't understand the reaction between two relatively inert and harmless products.

Sorry, I'm into details.


The combination (50/50 mix) basically dissolves lead but does not harm the barrel (although any external bluing might be compromised). The resulting waste product is lead acetate which is lead that has been dissolved and is no longer in metallic form and quite hazarous to health.

I used it on a Sig P220 barrel that I could not get clean after multiple attempts with a choreboy and Remington 40X bore scrubber. I let the solution sit inside the plugged barrel for an hour and then the chunks of lead just chipped off effortlessly.

I no longer shoot cast lead bullets since the cost of plated (not jacketed) bullets is cheap enough and does not cause leading.
 
I blew your pic up to the point of pixilation so are you referring to those "striations" going lengthwise along the bottom of the grooves in every rifling?

If so, and its a "modern" manufacture (say less than 10 years old) then more likely than not it is a micro grooved cut to create a class characteristic for a particular model of firearm and as its shot it will develop into an individual one as well.

This information is sent to the ATF and FBI and loaded into databases for firearms ID.

I found out a lot of requirements when I started the process of upgrading my old FFL to Type 10 title 2 SOT 3 as a manufacturer.

I base that on the picture and the overall uniformness and fact its the same in all of them ( at least from what I can see until it gets blurry)

If that not it then it looks like a very worn button chattering- that would be possible because most of those small barrels are made in a long stock and rifled ( easier to load and work in the CNC) then cut/chambered to various lengths as needed.

I cant see a mandrel making those marks and if it was a broach then the operator must have been asleep.

I would guess its a deliberate class characteristic added to make the ATFE happy- many manufacturers are doing that and keeping it on the down low these days.
 
Originally Posted by JHZR2
I'm a fan of the M1917 revolver, and came upon a modern S&W 22-4 model of 1917.


When was this gun made? I take it you bought this gun used (?). I'd suggest sending a photo to S&W Tech Dept and ask if this is normal if you find out it's not leading with wire brush marks.
 
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