CVT fluid change based on time

[Paul_Siu]

Hi,

My mom's Nissan Versa 2014 only has about 5,000 miles on it, so she drives less than 1,000 miles per year all short trips. There are currently no issues. The Nissan manual have schedule for low miles car as an oil change every 6 months, brake fluid every 2 years, and coolant every 7 years. There is however nothing on transmission fluid other than have the dealer run something call Consult to determine the fluid deterioration rate is lower than 210000. There is no dipstick for the fluid so I can't check what color it is.

The problem is that when I contacted the dealer, they seems not to know what deterioration rate means and suggest that it should be changed since it's over 5 years. I am not sure how much to trust the dealer (or most dealer in general). I did tried to call Nissan USA but they just defer to their local dealer. Changing CVT fluid is not cheap and even on a severe schedule, the service schedule is every 30,000 miles (normal is 60,000 miles). At this rate, it would take several decades to reach.

What are your expert's opinion on this? From my point of view
For:
* CVT is not like motor oil. it's not expose to constant heat and combustion. There shouldn't be stuff like carbon build up.
* Transmission fluid deteriorate due to heat. Short driving distance means the transmission never heated up.

Against
* The fluid is factory original and may contains break-in metal bits?
* Fluid may still break down over time, it's been like 6 years.

The dealer being dealt with has since closed. I am thinking of trying again with another dealer in her area.
* Anyone know anything about this Nissan Consult III that they refer to in the manual or how much it would cost to have them run it?
* There appears to be an application call CVTZ50 that connects to a ELM327 OBD2 dongle to read the value. Anyone have experience with the app?
* How reliable is this deterioration rate? I think it's suppose to be calculated based on temperature rather than actual fluid state.

Paul

 

[gathermewool]

How long will your mom keep the car? Will anyone you care about inherit it?

 

[Kestas]

I wouldn't change it. There is little concern for heat damage or chemical degradation. I would only worry about break-in debris, and I still think it's too early for that.

 

[Eddie]

I agree with Kestas. Ed

 

[StarCaller]

after 6 years....
how little can you drive ?

 

[NH73]

I would try a few other dealers. I am pretty sure you could tell a difference between getting a scripted answer or a technician who seems knowledgeable. Hopefully, one of your calls would score you a knowledgable tech or manager. If not, try an independent garage. See if anyone would recommend one that would be knowledgeable about Nissans. If non can be found, I would stick by the owners manual. I think it is safe to let go for the time being.

 

[Kira]

If ever there was a candidate for an electric car.

Are you at all hands-on?

 

[Paul_Siu]

Unless she crashes her car, for her entire life I expect. At the rate she drives, she would reach 35,000 miles in 30 years. I imagine the car would then be donated or end up being inherited by one of the grandkids. I do however want to avoid car problems since she will call me for help and I am on the other side of the country.

She is definitely a candidate for electric car, and I attempted to acquire one for her back in 2014, but unfortunately she lives in an older devlopment and there is no outlet for charging or at least none that won't blow the breakers when she charges.

I will try the other dealer and see if they are more helpful. It's not that I think all dealers are bad, but a lot of them no matter what brand of car appears to be either quote a rather aggressive maintenance schedule than the severe schedule in the manual or cite problems that doesn't exists. My wife's current Subaru dealer seems ok, the one where she got her car from not so much.

Paul

 

[KGMtech]

I have 2 Nissan's with CVT. The rate of driving your Mom's car is experiencing would make me suggest leaving it alone for another 4-5 years.

Your moms Nissan doesn't have a dipstick, but does have a fill tube. You could fabricate a dipstick to check the colour of the fluid. Get some picture hanging wire (braided stainless), about 30 inches should be enough, slide this down the fill tube (Nissan CVT have a locking tab on the fill tube cap - visit YouTube to find the simple method to pop it off) and get a sample from the transmission. Blot this sample on white paper towel and take a photo with your cell phone for future reference.

2-3 years forward, take another sample of the fluid and compare the colour to your 2020 Covid 19 file photo...this decides your next step.

 

[walterjay]

At this point I would not change it.

 

[philipp10]

I would not change it and I definitely woiuld not call another dealer for advice. There is no technician at a dealership that knows if it should be changed. It would just be an opinion. And given the low level of work going on a dealers now days, a good chance they will tell you it needs changing, just to boost their business. That fluid will be fine for a long, long time.

 

[csandste]

Originally Posted by KGMtech
I have 2 Nissan's with CVT. The rate of driving your Mom's car is experiencing would make me suggest leaving it alone for another 4-5 years.

Your moms Nissan doesn't have a dipstick, but does have a fill tube. You could fabricate a dipstick to check the colour of the fluid. Get some picture hanging wire (braided stainless), about 30 inches should be enough, slide this down the fill tube (Nissan CVT have a locking tab on the fill tube cap - visit YouTube to find the simple method to pop it off) and get a sample from the transmission. Blot this sample on white paper towel and take a photo with your cell phone for future reference.

2-3 years forward, take another sample of the fluid and compare the colour to your 2020 Covid 19 file photo...this decides your next step.


Can't even remember the thread, but I got it locked for throwing in the word that must not be mentioned in the same way you did, just being snarky. Had no intent of seeing it locked and other than that one word, my comment or the rest of the thread had nothing to do with it. We have some strange marshaling going on in this neck of the woods.

 

[JTK]

If I had to pay to have it changed, I'd leave it. If you can DIY, that's another story.

It's easy to do once you get access to charge pipe and get the stupid locking cap off. Access is a little tight on the Versa due to the tight engine bay.

Your well out of warranty based on time, so there's many aftermarket alternatives to NS3 fluid you can use.

 

[Lubener]

That fluid should be good for a long time. I change mine based on mileage, not time.

 

[gathermewool]

If she keeps the car out of the salt, drives conservatively and has a local mechanic check on the car at least yearly I believe this car will last a long time. Ie, I would not Engels this time-based maintenance, such as fluids and belts. Her low cost for fuel should makeup for the cost of heeding these items, especially if she stays away fro, the dealer.

I would change out the CVT fluid with OE-fluid-only now and then likely never again, based on her expected mileage per year.

 

[tc1446]

Call the dealer and find out what it costs to do the change. Might be reasonable enough that you"d want to have it done just for peach of mind.

 

[Paul_Siu]

I like the suggestion of checking the fluid, unfortunately, I am not physically there and limit of my mom's mechanical ability is to open the hood. I would need to enlist the aid of my sister, who can't see my mom right now due to the virus (she's medical).

I talked with the other Nissan dealer who is now the closest to her former dealer (who closed down). The person on the phone also said he has never heard of deterioration rate, but said he will talked with a tech. The tech said the following:
* The deterioration rate is calculated based on miles and temperature and driving condition. If she's been driving to to the grocery store for the past couple of years, it is likely too be a big fat zero or close to zero. The number is essentially meaningless for her. It would be more meaningful if they were using the car like a Uber driver.
* Transmission isn't like oil where the fluid is burning all the time and is exposed to air. He does not recommend changing the fluid now, but it may not be a bad idea to change it after 10 years or so. Alternately, he suggest that when she comes in on her 7 year service for coolant, she can have that CVT fluid change at the same time and that should be good for a while.

This makes me at least feel better about this dealer. Due to the virus situation, they could use the work but is not recommending extra-work, so the current plan is would be to deferred the maintenance to next year where she can just do both coolant and transmission at the same time.

By the way, what's do you think about testing the CVT fluid for issues (like strange metal) at that point? I email Blackstone, but their response wasn't all that clear if they did it or not. I recently started monitoring her oil on her oil changes.

I am also setting her up with a program call CVTZ50 to monitor her CVT via her phone. A OBD2 dongle can be had for under $20. The program is only $5.

Paul

 

[JTK]

Paul, I own a 2015 model year Versa sedan, but mine has the last of the 4spd automatics. One thing that is the same for the CVT or 4spd of this year range is the method of checking level. Per the book, level is checked by pulling the drain plug on the transmission pan with the vehicle idling in park, on a level surface, with the transmission fluid at a specific temperature range. When you remove the drain plug, there is a riser pipe threaded up the drain hole similar to Toyota's setup. Fluid should just dribble down the riser pipe and out of the drain hole if the level is correct. See my pics of the riser pipe below. Then the book tells you to refill the transmission through the drain plug.

As said above, these transmissions do have a charge pipe up top with the typical Nissan locking cap on it. On the Versa, it's buried under the engine air intake hose and wire harness. The air intake box and duct needs to be removed and some hoses and wire loom shoved out of the way to see it and get your hands on it.

I guess my point in all this is, I'd trust very few shops to know what to do. I'd leave it unless you know of someone good or can DIY.

 

[philipp10]

Paul, you are a bit too concerned about the CVT fluid (called Blackstone). The car doesn't get enough miles on it to wear the tranny out in the next 20 years. By the time the tranny goes, the car will be out moded and probably turned to rust anyway. Let it go, your just throwing money at a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[Paul_Siu]

JTK,

Thanks, if I visit my mom again, I may try to extract some oil to see what the color looks like. Would I be able to use the oil dipstick to extract the fluid or would it not fit?

Philipp10,
Actually part of the reason to look at the report is that I am curious what the report will say and would like to compare it with the next change interval, but you are correct that we are not likely to see the next change interval and so it's probably not a good idea. Thanks!

Paul