Prove My Point

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Brybo86
So Gebo when you did the timing belt in your LS400 you bought genuine Lexus branded parts?
Or did you buy the Aisin kit for 1/3 price and exact same parts?

I buy a majority of Genuine parts but some stuff is literally a Lexus name slapped on a part. In that case I buy OES like Denso, Aisin, NGK, etc

The Aisin kit for my LS400 said "Lexus" on the belt ...


For most Japanese cars...if it's Aisin (or Denso), it's probably OEM quality. IIRC, a "Toyota" oxygen sensor is a Denso part with a Toyota PN.

 

[CT8]

1. Usually you are better off with OEM parts. Usually but not always

2. Usually a longer OCI will cause trouble "down the road. Usually but not always

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted by BigCahuna
The op sounds like the type of person who believe's whatever his dealer tells him. Lots of those people around, you know the type. never change their own oil, or even a tire for that matter. Just takes it to the dealer has the repair done, and leaves with a case of the warm and fuzzies. Never thinking that just about every mfgr buys parts from suppliers, who give them the best price. That's how they become OEM parts. Things like, tires,spark plugs, wiper blades, struts, bulbs, brake pads, rotors, starters, alternators, batteries, filters, oil trans, air and cabin, hoses, and electrical parts. And let's not forget, oil. If they are the best, why would you ever need to replace them? I know I'm not the only one who has had better luck with aftermarket parts in the quality and performance aspect, then I got with original factory OEM parts. Usually for a better purchase price to boot.,,


Sounds like my in-laws. But they learned when they turned about 70. Stopped going to the dealership and started to use a local guy that they trust and treats them well.

 

[CT8]

1. Usually you are better off with OEM parts. Usually but not always

2. Usually a longer OCI will cause trouble "down the road. Usually but not always
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Gebo
I know many hate these thoughts, but many know they are right:

1. Usually you are better off with OEM parts

2. Usually a longer OCI will cause trouble "down the road."

Deep down, we know these truths but we just try our best to rationalize in our attempt to "save" money.
We argue and try to convince ourselves and each other why we believe an oil will last a year, an aftermarket
part is just as good as an OEM, greater particle filtration is always superior, a "one size fits all" antifreeze/fluid is better
because we used it for 1 year and saw nothing bad happen, etc.

Deep down, we all know what's best and don't really need to prove anything. We really know the truth, don't we?


Who is "We?" Got a mouse in your pocket? Maybe a voice in your head?
The voices in my head are powerful !

 

[doitmyself]

Gebo,

that you seek affirmation to support your beliefs indicates to me that you are very uncomfortable straying out of your bubble bounded by the definition of "usually" : "Most of the time; less than always, but more than occasionally. Under normal conditions."

It's probably driven by fear of a number of things - failure, esteem, performance, perceptions, etc.....this coming from an experienced, recovering OCPD perfectionist

It might be fine for you, but not for me. It reminds me of the Steve Martin Parenthood grandmother quote below.. my life's been a roller coaster for sure. I would hate to die having only ridden the merry-go-round the entire time:

 

[simple_gifts]

Here is a post by the OP

Quote

I decided to go and change out all my ATF's to the specific Toyota fluid that is called for. I thought all of them were either T-V or WS. Bought 24 of each at my faithful Lexus Dealership. You will never guess
how surprised I was after draining the ATF out of my 2002 4Runner this afternoon. I took the 14 ml hex bolt in to get a new crush washer and as I was inspecting it I thought I saw "D II" stamped on it. I thought I better get
my reading glasses. I did and sure enough, big as day I confirmed the drain bolt said DEXRON II. I said to my self, somebody has inadvertently swapped transmission drain bolts because I know my 2002 would call
for T-IV. Then it hit me. Read the owner's manual and then I will prove this was just a simple bolt swap issue. Well, I got the owner's manual out and turned to the Transmission spec page and I couldn't believe what I saw.
My heart sunk. My transmission calls for DEXRON II.

What do I do? Please don't waste your time telling me to use Maxlife, please? Pretty please? No sugar on top though. grin2

I want to use whatever Toyota ATF I am supposed to. I know WS won't work. I don't think T-IV will work. Do I just go and find some generic Dexron III?

Remember, my point is not to use a multi-vehicle ATF. Amsoil is out. Schaeffers is out. Maxlife it out. I am of sound mind. I'm removing all my Amsoil and Schaeffers in my other car's transmissions and replacing with T-IV or WS.



Okaaaaaay. I guess Dex II is the best fluid for his app. Best to get this outdated fluid @ the dealer since Toyota spent years telling GM to make a fluid for Toyota vehicles so there must be some "special sauce" in there.

He really is just posting this to rehash the same old issues; like his is Mobil 3309 the same as T-IV thread.

Doing yearly OC or 15K miles on my 2004, using Redline D6 in the transmission and non API approved oil in the CC no issues in a 17 year old car, how much more "down the road do i need to drive?"

 

[HoosierJeeper]

I think OEM parts are usually the safest bet, but sometimes they are worse. Like coils and shocks for my Liberty, they sag out in 30k miles. So I bought OME springs/shocks and they last much longer and ride far nicer than the OEM stuff did. I believe it's mandatory to get OEM coolant/trans fluid/PS fluid (or equivalent, like Zerex G05).

As far the OCI, depends on the vehicle and its use.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

To be fair and non biased,, I think it important to at least say this in general terms.

OEM parts and recommendations are almost always based on the initial DFMEA engineering and design performance characteristics.( all they have to go on except for specific application machinery)

Aftermarket parts ( even some OEM) are often manufactured for specific usage and updated during specific field tests.

So, sometimes its not so much "better" ( in terms of quality or end performance) as it is a better fitness for purpose.

 

[gathermewool]

I usually agree with Gebo...

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by blupupher
OEM parts are made by an aftermarket manufacturer.
All OEM fluids are made by an outside vendor, none of them make their own oil, coolant or ATF.
Wix, Fram, Purolator, Mahle, Champ, Mann+Hummel, and others make OEM filters.
Many actual OEM parts (brakes, pads, fuel pumps, etc) are outsourced to "aftermarket" manufacturers and available in the aftermarket for much less as "unbranded" but identical to OEM.


Original parts are made by the Original Equipment Manufacturer, by definition.

 

[bdcardinal]

I have seen where the downside of a longer OCI is in engines that may consume oil and the owner/operator doesn't check it regularly. Probably a not a problem with the average BITOR'er but it is a problem with a lot of owners.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted by bdcardinal
I have seen where the downside of a longer OCI is in engines that may consume oil and the owner/operator doesn't check it regularly. Probably a not a problem with the average BITOR'er but it is a problem with a lot of owners.

I agree with you.

But for folks that get a new vehicle every 120K miles, for them it doesn't matter.

Our old Civic and Accord had 200K + miles and zero oil needed to be added between oil changes.

 

[Lubener]

Originally Posted by Gebo
I know many hate these thoughts, but many know they are right:

1. Usually you are better off with OEM parts

2. Usually a longer OCI will cause trouble "down the road."

Deep down, we know these truths but we just try our best to rationalize in our attempt to "save" money.
We argue and try to convince ourselves and each other why we believe an oil will last a year, an aftermarket
part is just as good as an OEM, greater particle filtration is always superior, a "one size fits all" antifreeze/fluid is better
because we used it for 1 year and saw nothing bad happen, etc.

Deep down, we all know what's best and don't really need to prove anything. We really know the truth, don't we?

I respect your right to be strange in your ways.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by blupupher
OEM parts are made by an aftermarket manufacturer.
All OEM fluids are made by an outside vendor, none of them make their own oil, coolant or ATF.
Wix, Fram, Purolator, Mahle, Champ, Mann+Hummel, and others make OEM filters.
Many actual OEM parts (brakes, pads, fuel pumps, etc) are outsourced to "aftermarket" manufacturers and available in the aftermarket for much less as "unbranded" but identical to OEM.


Original parts are made by the Original Equipment Manufacturer, by definition.


No. Original parts are INSTALLED by the vehicle manufacturer. They no longer MAKE much in the way of parts.

 

[Gebo]

Don't think I'm ignoring any of you. Just finished my Sunday chicken 🗠with baked beans and potato salad. Gotta work on a parishioner's ‘99 Camry as she needs it back this evening. First her car, then my nap and then fun time here in bitog. Maybe tonight or tomorrow morning. Depends on how long it takes me between babysitting and mechanicing.

Please keep the comments, ridicule, praise, questions, etc coming as they are fascinating to me.

Well, usually.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by brages

Original parts are made by the Original Equipment Manufacturer, by definition.


Not quite. OEM parts are made by an OEM.
Original parts can be made by the auto manufacturer.

 

[02SE]

Is OE/OEM the best? It depends.

In stock form OE parts are made to last a certain amount of time. In some cases that's just (hopefully) past the warranty period. Other manufacturers take pride in making a long-lasting, reliable product. I saw this in my days working on consumer cars, and from talking to friends and former colleagues, it holds true to this day.

In the interest of avoiding an uproar from fan boys of certain marques, I will not be listing which marques have a better track record...

I can think of aftermarket performance parts which are much better than OE/OEM. Because they need to be for the applications they are made for.

 

[xyxptlx]

This is an interesting question because it really speaks to the veracity of the opinions. Who of the responders, so far, are petrochemical engineers? I am not, either. My engineering degree is quite old, however since physics is still similar it has some use. The OEMs are trying to write a spec that will cover owners that use their vehicles from several hundred miles a month to 1000 or more a week.So there are two specs, one time and one miles. If the oil meets spec, does the engine care if it's mage by Murphys or Exxon? Is the oil done when it looks bad or when the UOA says it done. How many documented engine failure due to oil are there? I've been driving more than 50 years and never had one in cars or trucks. No oil related failures in aviation either.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by Pablo
Originally Posted by Gebo
I know many hate these thoughts, but many know they are right:

1. Usually you are better off with OEM parts

2. Usually a longer OCI will cause trouble "down the road."

Deep down, we know these truths ............We really know the truth, don't we?


Usually? 51% of the time? 63.789% of the time? Nebulous statement is nebulous. 100% of the time I have replaced something on my 2019 truck, 100% I used something that is better than the OEM part.
Usually? There is that word again. Longer, properly extended change intervals CAUSE absolutely zero problems
NOW on both. Prove it. YOU made the statements, not a theory you said TRUTH. Prove both statements.
Pablo, Nebulous is a pretty fancy word.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by blupupher
OEM parts are made by an aftermarket manufacturer.
All OEM fluids are made by an outside vendor, none of them make their own oil, coolant or ATF.
Wix, Fram, Purolator, Mahle, Champ, Mann+Hummel, and others make OEM filters.
Many actual OEM parts (brakes, pads, fuel pumps, etc) are outsourced to "aftermarket" manufacturers and available in the aftermarket for much less as "unbranded" but identical to OEM.


Original parts are made by the Original Equipment Manufacturer, by definition.


No. Original parts are INSTALLED by the vehicle manufacturer. They no longer MAKE much in the way of parts.


OEM parts are parts that are manufactured by the manufacturer that produced the part for when the car was in production. An OEM part may be produced by a Tier I, Tier II, Tier III supplier, or by the auto manufacturer themselves. There are some parts that are almost always manufactured by the auto maker. Body panels for example.


I am one that generally prefers OEM parts. When I replace a fuel pump, I want to replace it once, so I use OEM. I want a water pump to perform to spec, and last long, so it will be OEM. I have found that OEM brake pad kits perform well, produce less dust, and are quiet. And when it comes time to change fluid in a CVT, I will only use OEM fluid.

When changing fluilds on my E350, I don't use OEM fluids, but do verify that the fluids I use are M-B approved in Bevo.

But there are some parts that I don't bother with OEM for. And I suspect very, very few fellow BITOG people use OEM. Brake rotors. Brake fluid is another. Motor oil. Differential fluid. Light bulbs. Oil filters, and engine air filters. Batteries. Serpentine belts. Tires.

Having spent enough time here at BITOG, and read enough of the referenced studies that many have shared links to, I would be hard pressed to believe that using OEM makes little, if any difference at all in these, and probably many other, applications. I believe aftermarket parts can be better than OEM in may of these items. Case in point that most here should be familiar with is Subaru OEM batteries. No doubt an aftermarket is better. How many times have we seen tear down of a Toyota or Honda oil filter? There is little doubt here that a Mobil 1 or Fram Ultra will protect an engine better, or at least longer, than most any OEM filter.

I'd put money on it that if you visited 3 different Toyota dealerships, at least 1 of them is using bulk Valvoline or Pennzoil. Why? Because it doesn't matter. People put 300k miles and more on engines with Quaker State, Castrol, Mobil 1, TGMO, and yes, even Supertech.and Amsoil.

In the case of the OP, if the fill plug is marked with Dexron II, I'd bet money that the factory fill was Dexron II. Toyota will sell you their branded tranny fluid.