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Any brake system engineer here to explain why #5396719 04/07/20 06:38 PM
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atikovi Offline OP
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First generation Honda Insights with automatic transmission have cast iron front brake calipers while manual transmissions have aluminum calipers?

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: atikovi] #5396737 04/07/20 07:03 PM
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oldhp Offline
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Manual trans is driven harder requiring more braking action, aluminum dissipates heat better. banana


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Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: atikovi] #5396761 04/07/20 07:29 PM
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eljefino Offline
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Maybe the aluminum ones cost more but save weight, and it got the car into a lower CAFE weight class.

These classes don't really-really matter, but if one can make bantamweight they get "free" MPG/ credits.

This is also why Honda does the lawnmower sized batteries.

The automatic insight doesn't need to fit any particular weight class.

OT The plastic (?) calipers on my prius are silly-light.

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: oldhp] #5396766 04/07/20 07:34 PM
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atikovi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by oldhp
Manual trans is driven harder requiring more braking action, aluminum dissipates heat better. banana


The majority of people owning these drive like they have an egg between their foot and the accelerator. Neither transmission gets driven or braked hard, especially with regenerative braking where pads can last over 100,000 miles.

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: atikovi] #5396834 04/07/20 08:44 PM
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Kestas Offline
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I doubt Honda is that presumptive on the driving habits of drivers with particular transmissions.

I can't think of any reason to associate caliper casting material with transmission type.

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: Kestas] #5396872 04/07/20 09:24 PM
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Rmay635703 Offline
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Originally Posted by Kestas
I doubt Honda is that presumptive on the driving habits of drivers with particular transmissions.

I can't think of any reason to associate caliper casting material with transmission type.


Generally accepted theory is that the CVT weighs more and needs stronger brakes

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: atikovi] #5396875 04/07/20 09:26 PM
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Huh, that is a good question. All cars use the same knuckle and lower control arm, so it's not like they parts bin engineered the addition of the CVT in the second model year and changed the caliper with it. Also, the exact same rotor for both of them. Its gotta be a weight thing, but why tool up a brand new part to make something heavier in the second year?

You're right, it doesn't make much sense.

Being the same knuckle and rotor, you should be able to swap the aluminum caliper on to a cast iron car. Assuming the piston bore is the same, and vice versa.


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Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: ctechbob] #5396921 04/07/20 10:21 PM
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atikovi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ctechbob
Its gotta be a weight thing, but why tool up a brand new part to make something heavier in the second year?


3 or 4 pounds per caliper between the two in a 2,000 pound car won't make a measurable difference. A loaded purse weighs more.

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: atikovi] #5397021 04/08/20 05:23 AM
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Do the cars have different assembly plants?


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Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: oldhp] #5397027 04/08/20 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by oldhp
Manual trans is driven harder requiring more braking action, aluminum dissipates heat better. banana

I fail to see your logic that driving with a manual transmissions make someone place more stress on the brakes. ???

Last edited by Lubener; 04/08/20 06:03 AM.

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Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: atikovi] #5397091 04/08/20 07:54 AM
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ARCOgraphite Offline
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Originally Posted by atikovi
First generation Honda Insights with automatic transmission have cast iron front brake calipers while manual transmissions have aluminum calipers?

Sounds like a running change. But first to teat your initial assertion.

Is this assertion extrapolated from personal knowledge of 2 samples?

<or>

please cite references.

Some thoughts ...

AFA MT having cast Al calipers, was this a superlight HE model?

Is it tied into regen or lack thereof on the MT car?

AFA oldhp idea, MT do not necessarily require "better" brakes, AT usually require better brakes.


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Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: atikovi] #5397100 04/08/20 08:00 AM
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The insights equipt with aluminum brakes are more likely to warp, one of my MT Insights had the brakes swapped to iron when I bought it.

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: ARCOgraphite] #5397140 04/08/20 08:55 AM
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atikovi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by atikovi
First generation Honda Insights with automatic transmission have cast iron front brake calipers while manual transmissions have aluminum calipers?

Sounds like a running change.



Nope, same throughout the 2000-2006 model run.

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: atikovi] #5397155 04/08/20 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by ctechbob
Its gotta be a weight thing, but why tool up a brand new part to make something heavier in the second year?


3 or 4 pounds per caliper between the two in a 2,000 pound car won't make a measurable difference. A loaded purse weighs more.

Ever heard the saying "every little bit helps" ? I'm willing to bet that it was done for weight savings and the caliper isn't the only thing you'll find that they use a different material with.

Re: Any brake system engineer here to explain why [Re: hallstevenson] #5397174 04/08/20 09:29 AM
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atikovi Offline OP
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Originally Posted by hallstevenson
I'm willing to bet that it was done for weight savings and the caliper isn't the only thing you'll find that they use a different material with.


So why didn't they use aluminum on the automatic model? They do use magnesium for the oil pan on both.

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