What VPN do you Recommend?

Overkill, OP asked "Which VPN do you Recommend?" I didn't recommend one because anybody can research VPN's. I do however believe that for Tom, ****, and Harry, daisy-chaining VPN's, to be more specific, two of them, makes sense as it offers some security benefits over using one VPN. Does it make a real difference? It depends on who's snooping. And your VPN is only as good as it is in not keeping logs, and they all keep some logs. If you can answer the OP's question in regard to the best choice of VPN, I'm all ears. OP never said what his intended use was.
 
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Originally Posted by vavavroom
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by vavavroom
All I will tell you is that you should daisy-chain several VPN's with servers located in different regions.


That does absolutely nothing to obscure the ID of the device streaming the content.


All you can do is add more encryption.


Further to this:

I could spin up an OpenBSD install on a laptop, go down to the local Starbucks and Tor my way into a pretty anonymous Youtube video watching experience, but the moment I sign into a Netflix account, they know who I am. Doesn't matter where it shows me to be, same with Amazon Video or any other pay-for streaming service.

IF all your video watching consists of torrents and/or anonymous pirate streams using an Android box and you never use a subscription service, a reasonable level of anonymity can be achieved using a VPN, but my impression is that folks think that they become Jack Reacher, man of mystery, when they add a VPN to their everyday activities, which is like putting on a Ghillie suit and then driving your truck to the mall thinking nobody can see you or know who you are.
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Overkill, OP asked "Which VPN do you Recommend?" I didn't recommend one because anybody can research VPN's. I do however believe that for Tom, ****, and Harry, daisy-chaining VPN's, to be more specific, two of them, makes sense as it offers some security benefits over using one VPN. Does it make a real difference? It depends on who's snooping. And your VPN is only as good as it is in not keeping logs, and they all keep some logs. If you can answer the OP's question in regard to the best choice of VPN, I'm all ears. OP never said what his intended use was.



The OP stated:

Originally Posted by Gebo
I just don't want people tracking me and I still wanna watch Netflix and Amazon and YouTube.


That's not going to be achieved using a VPN. Doesn't matter if you are running 30 of them on top of each other and cripple your traffic speed to 56K dial-up, it's not the transit that's the problem, it is the endpoint and service, neither of which are improved by the addition of a VPN with respect to the streaming services in question. Netflix, Amazon and YouTube traffic is already encrypted, further encrypting encrypted traffic isn't offering a security benefit.
 
Overkill, you make lots of assumptions regarding the intended use of a VPN by the OP. You'll need to take this up with him so that you can offer him more tailored advice, something I am not willing to do in the first place.
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Overkill, you make lots of assumptions regarding the intended use of a VPN by the OP. You'll need to take this up with him so that you can offer him more tailored advice, something I am not willing to do in the first place.


I'm not making assumptions, see the quote from the OP in the post above yours.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
[The OP stated:

Originally Posted by Gebo
I just don't want people tracking me and I still wanna watch Netflix and Amazon and YouTube.


I guess I interpret this differently from how you read it. To me it sounds like the OP doesn't want to be easily tracked on some/many sites but still wants to be able to use his Netflix, Amazon, and Youtube accounts. So to me it sounds like he does not want to have to toggle his VPN off for the streaming sites he has accounts with. I don't believe he expects to remain anonymous when logging into his account while using a VPN. You can log into an existing account while using a VPN but it may require account verification as an extra step due to "unexpected log in."
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
[The OP stated:

Originally Posted by Gebo
I just don't want people tracking me and I still wanna watch Netflix and Amazon and YouTube.


I guess I interpret this differently from how you read it. To me it sounds like the OP doesn't want to be easily tracked on some/many sites but still wants to be able to use his Netflix, Amazon, and Youtube accounts. So to me it sounds like he does not want to have to toggle his VPN off for the streaming sites he has accounts with. I don't believe he expects to remain anonymous when logging into his account while using a VPN. You sually can log into an existing account while using a VPN but it may require account verification as an extra step due to "unexpected log in."



Per my interaction with the OP:
Originally Posted by Gebo
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Gebo

I just don't want people tracking me and I still wanna watch Netflix and Amazon and YouTube.


All three of those companies will still track what you are watching, regardless of a presence of a VPN. They aren't concerned with the IP address associated with the traffic.



Did not know that.


Which further legitimizes the information I've presented.

A VPN doesn't further harden your endpoints, all you are doing is obscuring DNS queries and socket data from your ISP; unencrypted data, that's the reality of it. They (your ISP) can use some of that information to see if you are downloading (unencrypted) torrents or per alarmguy's posit, create a profile of you based on your browsing habits. If you are using a private tracker and encryption, the torrent point is moot. If you are using an encrypted 3rd party DNS provider, that information is concealed as well. Any traffic that's already end-to-end encrypted is of no value to them.

Your device and the service you are accessing are the two biggest components here, as end-to-end encryption is almost universally present on even low-risk stuff like this website at this point. Locking down the transport doesn't do much good if those two things aren't, and that's guaranteed to be the case for anything that's subscription-based. Locking down your browser and endpoint impacts the experience for the end user, so most are also unwilling to do that. In that situation, a VPN instills a false sense of security.
 
Gebo also said he wanted to use the VPN for "general websurfing." My recommendation was only for that. Maybe we should ask him if its mostly for websurfing or for streaming via his Netflix et al streaming services.If the latter is the case I'm not wasting my time any longer.
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Gebo also said he wanted to use the VPN for "general websurfing." My recommendation was only for that. Maybe we should ask him if its mostly for websurfing or for streaming via his Netflix et al streaming services.If the latter is the case I'm not wasting my time any longer.


That's fair. I was responding further to my exchange with him, which, as shown, seemed to feel that he was adding this wonderful layer of anonymity to everything simply via the addition of a VPN, hence the elaborate explanation(s).
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Gebo also said he wanted to use the VPN for "general websurfing." My recommendation was only for that. Maybe we should ask him if its mostly for websurfing or for streaming via his Netflix et al streaming services.If the latter is the case I'm not wasting my time any longer.


That's fair. I was responding further to my exchange with him, which, as shown, seemed to feel that he was adding this wonderful layer of anonymity to everything simply via the addition of a VPN, hence the elaborate explanation(s).


I hadn't even read the whole thread and was just trying to give as general an answer as possible to a very general question. I find VPN useful when using public wifi and that's it. The least safe element is always the user, especially the one who feels safe.
 
Vavaroom, you have the basic understanding of what I'm looking for and I understand your comments.

Overkill, I really have no idea what you are taking about.
You are so far over my head I don't even know how to respond to you. I have researched a little and I don't understand what makes one VPN more advantageous than another. I'm obviously too ignorant and dumb for your help. There probably isn't a lot of need in you posting anymore in this thread. It seems to be making you angry.

There are so many VPN's I figured someone here could point me in the right direction. My understanding was a VPN provided privacy but could slow your service down. Since all I got to start with is 25 mB to start with I was thinking someone here could tell me if there was one that minimized slowing down my service. And I watch Netflix, Amazon and YouTube.

Thank you Vavaroom.
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
[The OP stated:

Originally Posted by Gebo
I just don't want people tracking me and I still wanna watch Netflix and Amazon and YouTube.


I guess I interpret this differently from how you read it. To me it sounds like the OP doesn't want to be easily tracked on some/many sites but still wants to be able to use his Netflix, Amazon, and Youtube accounts. So to me it sounds like he does not want to have to toggle his VPN off for the streaming sites he has accounts with. I don't believe he expects to remain anonymous when logging into his account while using a VPN. You can log into an existing account while using a VPN but it may require account verification as an extra step due to "unexpected log in."


You are correct.
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Gebo also said he wanted to use the VPN for "general websurfing." My recommendation was only for that. Maybe we should ask him if its mostly for websurfing or for streaming via his Netflix et al streaming services.If the latter is the case I'm not wasting my time any longer.


That's fair. I was responding further to my exchange with him, which, as shown, seemed to feel that he was adding this wonderful layer of anonymity to everything simply via the addition of a VPN, hence the elaborate explanation(s).


I hadn't even read the whole thread and was just trying to give as general an answer as possible to a very general question. I find VPN useful when using public wifi and that's it. The least safe element is always the user, especially the one who feels safe.


thumbsup2.gif
Yep, I use one whenever I'm at a hotel or on any network where there's a risk that something in clear text might be sniffed.
 
Originally Posted by Gebo
Overkill, I really have no idea what you are taking about.
You are so far over my head I don't even know how to respond to you. I have researched a little and I don't understand what makes one VPN more advantageous than another. I'm obviously too ignorant and dumb for your help. There probably isn't a lot of need in you posting anymore in this thread. It seems to be making you angry.


Nope, not angry, sorry if it came across that way. It just seems when the topic of VPN's come up most people seem to think they are providing a level of security far above and beyond what they are capable of, make sense? I was attempting, in a relatively simplified manner, to explain what they can and cannot do, but I appear to have failed in that endeavour if you found it too complex to be of benefit.

Originally Posted by Gebo
My understanding was a VPN provided privacy but could slow your service down. Since all I got to start with is 25 mB to start with I was thinking someone here could tell me if there was one that minimized slowing down my service. And I watch Netflix, Amazon and YouTube.


At its most basic, a VPN provides an encrypted tunnel between your computer/tablet/phone (device) or, your network, depending on whether you are using it at the router-level or not, and a remote endpoint, at which point the traffic is decrypted and traverses the internet in whatever form it was originally. This is useful if you do not trust your provider, like alarmguy, or if you are connecting to services that you don't want them to be aware of, like non-private tracker torrents, which you've made no mention of. They can also be useful to skirt geolocation restrictions on content, like for example Netflix in Canada, you can make it appear as if you are in the United States, so you get US content.

So, when you say you want "privacy", what exactly are you trying to improve upon? And who are you trying to shield that data from?
For example:
- Google search is encrypted, so your ISP isn't aware of what you are searching for, but Google tracks you. A VPN doesn't change that.
- Google's YouTube is also encrypted, so your ISP isn't aware of what you are searching for, but Google tracks you. A VPN doesn't change that.
- Netflix uses an encrypted connection, so whatever you search for on Netflix is also obscured from your ISP, but Netflix keeps track of it. A VPN doesn't change that.

When you click on a web link or type in a web address the primary DNS server you have configured in your router, or on your workstation is queried to resolve that friendly name to an IP address. This process takes place in clear text, so that traffic is sniffable. The DNS queries are usually resolved by a DNS server your ISP operates, so they know, if they choose to log, the sites your computer or network is visiting. A VPN will conceal all of this from your ISP so you must then rely on being confident that the VPN provider isn't logging the DNS queries you are making to their server. That of course doesn't prevent your browser from logging them if you are signed into it, like with Chrome. So the real advantage here is if you want to conceal the websites you are visiting from your ISP.

The encryption process between you and the VPN provider carries with it overhead, which presents in terms of latency and a bandwidth penalty. These services are also typically over-subscribed, which has a further impact on the speed. This is why people complain about a VPN making things slower for them.

Does any of that help? I'm just trying to establish an understanding on what a VPN can and cannot provide for you so you can determine whether using one makes sense. Unduly imposing a slowdown on yourself because you want to stream content from a service that's registered to you isn't improving your privacy one iota.

I personally do not use a VPN for day-to-day activities, despite operating a significant number of them all over the place. I'll use one if I want to spoof my location, and I'll use one if I'm on an insecure network like a coffee shop, hospital or hotel. This works to prevent DNS hijacks/redirects and allows me to funnel all my traffic through a trusted router and queries through trusted DNS servers, like OpenDNS for example. So again, it comes down to what you are trying to obscure, and from whom
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Nope, not angry, sorry if it came across that way. It just seems when the topic of VPN's come up most people seem to think they are providing a level of security far above and beyond what they are capable of, make sense? I was attempting, in a relatively simplified manner, to explain what they can and cannot do, but I appear to have failed in that endeavour if you found it too complex to be of benefit.

...

I appreciate your posts, it clarified VPN's a lot for me, and basically it is doing what I want it to.

I had changed my routers DNS servers already (for a "speed" aspect as well as for removing my ISP from the query, I use Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1).

I had tried setting up whole house VPN on the router, but speeds were just too slow, had issues getting Netflix to connect reliably, and my son's x-box had connection issues to some game servers as well as horrible PING.
Went to a per device approach instead (have it on the phones and tablets, my laptop and desktop, but not on wife's or daughters computers) so I could use it as needed.
Phone is used most (as I mentioned before, some things are blocked by work Wifi), and kids use it at school sometimes for the same reason.
 
Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Nope, not angry, sorry if it came across that way. It just seems when the topic of VPN's come up most people seem to think they are providing a level of security far above and beyond what they are capable of, make sense? I was attempting, in a relatively simplified manner, to explain what they can and cannot do, but I appear to have failed in that endeavour if you found it too complex to be of benefit.

...

I appreciate your posts, it clarified VPN's a lot for me, and basically it is doing what I want it to.

I had changed my routers DNS servers already (for a "speed" aspect as well as for removing my ISP from the query, I use Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1).

I had tried setting up whole house VPN on the router, but speeds were just too slow, had issues getting Netflix to connect reliably, and my son's x-box had connection issues to some game servers as well as horrible PING.
Went to a per device approach instead (have it on the phones and tablets, my laptop and desktop, but not on wife's or daughters computers) so I could use it as needed.
Phone is used most (as I mentioned before, some things are blocked by work Wifi), and kids use it at school sometimes for the same reason.


Thank you
smile.gif


You can't really go wrong with OpenDNS or Cloudflare. I'd be wary of using Google DNS for obvious reasons, lol
grin.gif
I've used OpenDNS since WAY before Cisco acquired them, but have recently switched at home and at the office to CIRA's D-Zone service, as it keeps all DNS queries in Canada and favours Canadian routes for traffic. Your usage profile fits the purpose quite well. I have most VPN providers blocked on my managed networks for that reason
wink.gif
I also lock down DNS traffic to my approved servers, so folks can't circumvent DNS filtering.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
You can't really go wrong with OpenDNS


I'll add that OpenDNS offers some content filtering, too, which spares those of use with children from having to impose awkward content filtering systems on multiple devices.
 
I would advise Cyberghost VPN - is a well-rounded VPN service that offers everything a typical user needs.
 
You may look into Opnsense or similar on an old, economical and quiet box. Better than TP-links of the world, yet has its own shortcomings, e.g. if you die tomorrow your family might be unable to maintain it, etc.
 
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