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Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? #5394806 04/05/20 06:21 PM
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NorCalHD Offline OP
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I was very tempted to switch from Mobile 1 v-twin 20/50 to mobile 1 synthetic 15w/50 but the more recent UOA/VOA show it has less additives then a few years ago.

Not saying it is still not an option. However, it looks no different then other options where as before it stood out.


Did I miss something? This is all new to me so please correct me, with some BITOG data of course ;), if this is incorrect.

Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: NorCalHD] #5394845 04/05/20 06:59 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Why is it always the newbies that ask whether <specific oil> "isn't what it used to be"? Generally it is because of some supposed base stock change, but this time it is "less additives" per a UOA "a few years ago".

Which additives are lower, and specifically how do those lower additives make it "not what it used to be"? If you can't answer that then I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know anyone on here who can read a $35 Blackstone UOA and then divine future performance of an oil. You say it "stood out", how did it stand out? What additives were you looking at that made it a physically and chemically superior oil than others?

Did the Mobil 1 (btw not "Mobile) oil you're looking at lose some motorcycle certification or license that you need?


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: kschachn] #5394874 04/05/20 07:29 PM
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domer10 Offline
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Why is it always the newbies that ask whether <specific oil> "isn't what it used to be"? Generally it is because of some supposed base stock change, but this time it is "less additives" per a UOA "a few years ago".

Which additives are lower, and specifically how do those lower additives make it "not what it used to be"? If you can't answer that then I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know anyone on here who can read a $35 Blackstone UOA and then divine future performance of an oil. You say it "stood out", how did it stand out? What additives were you looking at that made it a physically and chemically superior oil than others?

Did the Mobil 1 (btw not "Mobile) oil you're looking at lose some motorcycle certification or license that you need?


Why is it that people here talk out of both sides of their mouth just to be smug clowns.

So your saying that they have not removed or added less additives? When it’s been widely discussed and shown via VOA that far less moly is being used in certain formulations for example.

Keep thinking that oil companies are either removing additives in formulations or adding less, as well as substituting it for other ingredients to make it better, it’s because people want to nickel and dime for oil, and only buy it when it’s 99 cents a qt.....and then run a dirty filter to boot for another interval......lmao, this kills me, yet you and others want to criticize people for using additives that these oil companies are now removing or adding less of.....because you know, “they know best”. What they know is that they are in business to make money, and are not going to go out of their way to cater to a bunch of penny pinchers. Bare minimum to meet specs.


2013Jeep Wrangler Sahara Unlimited
2001 Toyota 4Runner
20010 Harley Davidson Rocker
Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: kschachn] #5394876 04/05/20 07:30 PM
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NorCalHD Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Why is it always the newbies that ask whether <specific oil> "isn't what it used to be"? Generally it is because of some supposed base stock change, but this time it is "less additives" per a UOA "a few years ago".

Which additives are lower, and specifically how do those lower additives make it "not what it used to be"? If you can't answer that then I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know anyone on here who can read a $35 Blackstone UOA and then divine future performance of an oil. You say it "stood out", how did it stand out? What additives were you looking at that made it a physically and chemically superior oil than others?

Did the Mobil 1 (btw not "Mobile) oil you're looking at lose some motorcycle certification or license that you need?



Oooh, some one with a lot of post counts being condescending. Yet, too lazy to disprove my question.

Only you brought up certifications? And, only you said performance? Trying to deflect? Or just confused?

Once again, here is what I said. Take your time and try to comprehend this time:

"Not saying it is still not an option. However, it looks no different then other options where as before it stood out."


Advertised:

Phosphorous is 1200 ppm and ZINC is 1300 ppm

VOA (their are more VOA and UOA if you are able to find them)

VOA for Mr Condescending


Update: Posted the above, reread it, and realized how awful it sounds. Apologies...


Last edited by NorCalHD; 04/05/20 07:35 PM.
Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: NorCalHD] #5394884 04/05/20 07:38 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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All you can do is compare recent VOAs. Doesn't matter what oil formulations were 10 years ago unless you have 10 year old oil laying around. Why not just use a JASO speced oil ... trying to save cost?

Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: NorCalHD] #5394905 04/05/20 08:05 PM
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SubieRubyRoo Offline
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Even though you ignored the question, let's ask it again. What certifications did the "old" VOA have that the new oil does not meet? If it meets all the same certifications, NOTHING is going to "stand out" between the old Mobil 15W50, the new Mobil 15W50, along with any other oil that meets the same certifications, as long as those certifications cover the engine you're going to put it in. Thinking that additional levels of a given element over what's required to help an oil meet the certifications are going to make a statistically significant shift in the life of a given engine is a fool's errand, and you'll never ever be able to quantify it.

As additive technology advances, it's logical for them to need "less" of that on a UOA. If, for example, an oil "used to use" 500 ppm of MoS2 as the moly additive, and now it uses trinuclear Moly but only has say 80 ppm, the window shoppers will say "Oh they cheapened the oil, I'm not using that ever again!", while the actual performance of the trinuclear Moly is significantly better than the MoS2. Which goes back to the original response to your question which you wholeheartedly ignored: a $35 OA is going to tell you as much about how "good" an oil is as sticking your head up a bull's tail end will tell you how the t-bone is going to taste.


De omnibus dubitandum.
Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: NorCalHD] #5394931 04/05/20 08:48 PM
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Cujet Offline
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NorCal,

I apologize for the above, I chalk it up to the stress of the times, or whatever.

In any case, M1, 15W-50 is still quite a robust oil and it works perfectly in many racing applications. I'm a turbocharged engine guy and use it regularly. If you are worried about lower zinc and phosphorous (ZDDP) , don't be. The 15W-50 contains plenty to do the job, and a whole bunch more than more common automotive oils. Remember that 1000PPM is sufficient and any more than that is not "more helpful" . In this case, the job of ZDDP is to form a protective coating that exists only to reduce wear when metal to metal contact occurs. Viscosity of the oil must be sufficient to avoid that contact, lest an engine self destruct. Put another way, the additives are a part of the entire package of performance.

The M1 has a HTHS (cP viscosity at 150c or 302f) of 4.5. Quite simply, it retains excellent viscosity at very high temperatures. Furthermore, the oil's pour point is still quite low, at -39f.

That's enough information to tell you that the oil's base stock is a quality synthetic product that works under a very wide range of temperatures. If however, the engine you operate is air cooled, has very high oil temperatures, relatively poor cylinder dimensional control during operation and highly loaded components due to a series of mechanical compromises, you may in fact need a higher viscosity oil.

So if you are asking if 15W-50 is as capable a product under the above conditions, as M1, 20W-50 V-Twin, the answer is no. The motorcycle oil is even higher in viscosity, the characteristic that might be better for the above mentioned engine.

My Lycoming aircraft engine requires a 50 viscosity oil here in South Florida. Maybe even a 60 viscosity oil. Trying to run that engine on something like a 15W-50 oil would result in high oil consumption.

Last edited by Cujet; 04/05/20 08:48 PM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: Cujet] #5394965 04/05/20 09:41 PM
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sloinker Offline
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Originally Posted by Cujet
NorCal,

I apologize for the above, I chalk it up to the stress of the times, or whatever.


Don't apologize, it's the same weasel every time. I only get to see his belly crawling comments when someone quotes him. Of the dozens of sites I inhabit and the decades of time I have been on the net, he is the only user I have ever placed on ignore. That's saying something.

OP, if it was me I would be looking at a boutique oil for your application. My preference is Red Line but there are others, M1's modern formulation comes up lacking imo.

Here's an oil shearing H-D that required something better than off the shelf oil.


https://www.redlineoil.com/20w50-motorcycle-oil

061130001.jpg
Last edited by sloinker; 04/05/20 09:50 PM. Reason: slipped in mopar juice

'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Red Line 5W30 Euro
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI M1 ESP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Valvoline 5W20 Semi Synthetic
'64 Plymouth Fury440 Pending
Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: NorCalHD] #5395022 04/05/20 10:55 PM
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aquariuscsm Online Content
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If I remember correctly,Mobil 1 15W50 *red cap* was the holy grail of 50 weights. What exactly was the difference between the old red cap 15W50 and current silver cap 15W50?


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 10W30

Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: NorCalHD] #5395051 04/05/20 11:43 PM
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Either one will meet and exceed your mileage expectations when compared to HD additives levels of 958 Ph and 1231 Z...

[Linked Image]

Last edited by BusyLittleShop; 04/05/20 11:44 PM.

Larry L
Have a Wheelie NICE day
94 RC45 #2 58,000 on 30 Grade, Currently Mobil 1 5W30 SN
2002 Camaro Mobil 1 5W30
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk



Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: BusyLittleShop] #5395091 04/06/20 01:44 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Either one will meet and exceed your mileage expectations when compared to HD additives levels of 958 Ph and 1231 Z...

[Linked Image]


Wasn't it pointed out when you've posted this before that it's very old information and not relevant today?

Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: NorCalHD] #5395166 04/06/20 06:35 AM
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kschachn Offline
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Instead of a vague "less additives" per a UOA "a few years ago", explain which additives, what they do, what is a effective treat rate for the additives, and how the oil is now "not what it used to be" because of the lower levels. These are the relevant questions to consider. How much of a zinc or phosphorus containing compound is required for the application?

Also consider that if the oil meets or obtains the required certification, license or approval then no $35 UOA is going to tell you that one such oil is better than another, or that one has degraded. Also consider that unless the additive has a metal ion then it will not necessarily show up on a UOA. Beyond that, a UOA does not show "additives" it shows the elements that composed any and all of the compounds that were present prior to the ICP decomposition.

Again, a $35 UOA does not predict the future performance of a motor oil. What you get from such a UOA are statements like "wow look at that slug of moly", "that's a stout add pack" or "wow look at that dose of boron!" This is not how motor oils are evaluated. Do you know how they are?

Gig me for calling you a newbie (you are though, aren't you?) but the rest of my post were relevant technical questions.

Originally Posted by NorCalHD
Oooh, some one with a lot of post counts being condescending. Yet, too lazy to disprove my question.

Only you brought up certifications? And, only you said performance? Trying to deflect? Or just confused?

Once again, here is what I said. Take your time and try to comprehend this time:

"Not saying it is still not an option. However, it looks no different then other options where as before it stood out."


Advertised:

Phosphorous is 1200 ppm and ZINC is 1300 ppm

VOA (their are more VOA and UOA if you are able to find them)

VOA for Mr Condescending


Update: Posted the above, reread it, and realized how awful it sounds. Apologies...



1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5395184 04/06/20 07:00 AM
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4WD Offline
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
All you can do is compare recent VOAs. Doesn't matter what oil formulations were 10 years ago unless you have 10 year old oil laying around. Why not just use a JASO speced oil ... trying to save cost?


^^ Allot said in fewer words right here ^^

Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5395204 04/06/20 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Even though you ignored the question, let's ask it again. What certifications did the "old" VOA have that the new oil does not meet? If it meets all the same certifications, NOTHING is going to "stand out" between the old Mobil 15W50, the new Mobil 15W50, along with any other oil that meets the same certifications, as long as those certifications cover the engine you're going to put it in. Thinking that additional levels of a given element over what's required to help an oil meet the certifications are going to make a statistically significant shift in the life of a given engine is a fool's errand, and you'll never ever be able to quantify it.

As additive technology advances, it's logical for them to need "less" of that on a UOA. If, for example, an oil "used to use" 500 ppm of MoS2 as the moly additive, and now it uses trinuclear Moly but only has say 80 ppm, the window shoppers will say "Oh they cheapened the oil, I'm not using that ever again!", while the actual performance of the trinuclear Moly is significantly better than the MoS2. Which goes back to the original response to your question which you wholeheartedly ignored: a $35 OA is going to tell you as much about how "good" an oil is as sticking your head up a bull's tail end will tell you how the t-bone is going to taste.



I got to agree ^^
Furthermore todays oils are far superior to just a couple years ago, why? They meet the new certifications which are even more stringent.

Ahh .. yes, the $35 UOA. Can you imagine if oil companies formulated oils based on what you see in the UOA?
Oil is far more complicated then any UOA shows.
BTW the best anti wear compound is ... ? Answer = Oil - not the other stuff.

BTW - Busy little shop has no documentation as to when those VOAs were done a few posts up^^. I assume quite a long time ago.
Here is someone from Jan 2020 who just had a UOA on his veto done using MI 15/50
Big difference in what busy little shop has posted.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...15w50-6k-mi-oci-21-6k-mi-c7-corvette-z06

Last edited by alarmguy; 04/06/20 07:42 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be? [Re: NorCalHD] #5395252 04/06/20 08:23 AM
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Anything from M1 isn't what it used to be... it still kills me to see the fan base M1 products have on here, many of these guys still think this stuff is the holy grail of oils... it is NOTHING like it used to be and is mediocre oil at best. No better than Pennzoil, Castrol or any other Group III "syn" offerings.


Just say NO to thin oils and M1!
05 F350 Powerstroke
05 Hyundai Tucson
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