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KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? #5393141 04/03/20 11:42 PM
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vfrkent Offline OP
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I wanted to get some opinions on the choice the factory set for the viscosity on this 2015 KTM 1190 Adventure, the factory recommends a 10W50 with a 9K oil change interval, or if below 32F to use a 5W40, I'm wondering if using a 10W40 with shorter change intervals of say 3K would provide equal to or better protection then the 10W50, the thought being that the 10W50 by 9K would have sheared back to the 30W range so by running a 10W40 with a shorter change interval you would have better protection on the high temp side, Thoughts?

Regards,
Kent


04' Tundra V8 TRD S/C 5W/30 Mobil-1
14' Infiniti Q50 Sport Awd 5W/30 Mobil-1
12' Honda Goldwing 10W/40 Mobil-1
15' KTM 1190 Adventure 10W-50 Castrol 4T
05' Bluewater Mirage 0W/40 Mobil-1
Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: vfrkent] #5393154 04/04/20 12:57 AM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Makes sense, you could probably go out to 4000 - 4500 miles with the 10W-40.

Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: vfrkent] #5393184 04/04/20 03:48 AM
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pbm Offline
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I'd consider a 15w40 over a 10w40.


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: vfrkent] #5393241 04/04/20 06:15 AM
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Olas Offline
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Do what they say during warranty, use Redline 5w40 outside of warranty. BIkes get hot and Redline handles the heat etter than any other oil. Very low VII content means it wont shear down to a 30, unlike most 50s which shear down to 40 quite quickly.
(if you have a wet clutch I cant comment)

Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: Olas] #5393601 04/04/20 02:18 PM
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Bonz Offline
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My thought is 10w50 will shear to a 10w40 pretty quickly as well. Mobil 1 10w40 4T is a superb oil, 5000 Mile oci in my ZRX 1200 showed it basically stayed in grade despite starting as a light at 40 wt. The OP indicates they recommend 10w50, I am sure that is not the only oil that KTM would allow. In any case, this type of question is that reason we exist on this forum! LOL.

Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: vfrkent] #5394009 04/04/20 10:02 PM
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JasonK94Z Offline
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My 2014 KTM Adventure has been running Redline 20w-50. No problems at all, even in freezing temps. I’m sticking with the 50 weight. This engine is like sitting on top of a hot [censored] rocket. It hot! Fast too thumbsup

Last edited by JasonK94Z; 04/04/20 10:03 PM.

2011 Ram 1500
2016 Kia Rio LX daughters
2018 Kia Rio S sons
2003 Kawasaki KLR650
2014 KTM 1190 Adventure
Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: vfrkent] #5394016 04/04/20 10:22 PM
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BusyLittleShop Offline
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Originally Posted by vfrkent
I'm wondering if using a 10W40 with shorter change intervals of say 3K would provide equal to or better protection then the10W50


According to KTM either a 40 or 50 Grade will meet or exceed your mileage expectations...
[Linked Image]



As Blackstone has stated there are no reason to fear the shear...
its harmless because as our oil shears flow increases... increase flow
is harmless because our oil serves as a "wall" only when it is constantly
FLOWING between parts keeping them from touching...

API grades oil on gravity flow in cSt... API grades are not a
measurement of an oils actual physical size rather its really the
rate oil flows measured by a stop watch... blink and you might miss
the difference between the grades...

[Linked Image]

Last edited by BusyLittleShop; 04/04/20 10:44 PM.

Larry L
Have a Wheelie NICE day
94 RC45 #2 58,000 on 30 Grade, Currently Mobil 1 5W30 SN
2002 Camaro Mobil 1 5W30
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk



Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: BusyLittleShop] #5394063 04/04/20 11:55 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
As Blackstone has stated there are no reason to fear the shear...
its harmless because as our oil shears flow increases... increase flow
is harmless because our oil serves as a "wall" only when it is constantly
FLOWING between parts keeping them from touching...


Same flow because of the positive displacement oil pump (why do so many people don't get that?).

What keeps parts from rubbing on each other is the oil viscosity. The thicker the oil viscosity, the higher the MOFT. If the viscosity becomes too low is when parts start rubbing on each other (zero MOFT) and wear occurs.

Blackstone is blowing smoke.

Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: vfrkent] #5394243 04/05/20 08:12 AM
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Bonz Offline
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Did some additional reading on the positive displacement pump... Keeping in mind the amount of oil being pumped is the same, the resistance is what creates the pressure. Therefore thicker oil will be under higher pressure but the volume will be the same as thinner oil.

So, a lightweight oil such as a 5w20 will keep pressure down at higher RPM so the pressure relief valve doesn't open in the engine. Running a 15w40 or 20w50 can potentially cause the pressure valve to open at a lower RPM. However oil pressure won't drop dangerously, it will simply stay at the pressure the relief valve was designed to open at.

Why the worry about oil reaching vital engine parts at cold startup? Is it because the positive displacement pump isn't turning as fast due to the engine cranking slower (starter motor can't turn the engine as fast due to thicker oil in the engine or whatever) on colder days?

That would be the only plausible explanation for all the hullabaloo about oil flow at cold startup. Makes me wonder if temperatures in the twenties really make that much of a difference between a 5wXX, 10wXX, or even a 15wXX.

Ulimately I think of this as more of an issue with vehicles that are actually driven in sub-zero temps. For a motorcycle I think this is a moot point other than ensuring the oil is thick enough to keep proper pressure at hot idle.



Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: Bonz] #5394849 04/05/20 07:04 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by Bonz
Did some additional reading on the positive displacement pump... Keeping in mind the amount of oil being pumped is the same, the resistance is what creates the pressure. Therefore thicker oil will be under higher pressure but the volume will be the same as thinner oil.

So, a lightweight oil such as a 5w20 will keep pressure down at higher RPM so the pressure relief valve doesn't open in the engine. Running a 15w40 or 20w50 can potentially cause the pressure valve to open at a lower RPM. However oil pressure won't drop dangerously, it will simply stay at the pressure the relief valve was designed to open at.


It's actually when at higher RPM, not lower RPM. But regardless, even when 15W40 or 20W50 is at full operating temperature it's still pretty thin and the positive displacement oil pump will most likely not hit pressure relief.

Yes, revving any engine up pretty high with cold oil (even something like 5W20) will most likely cause the positive displacement oil pump pressure relief valve to kick in.

Originally Posted by Bonz
Why the worry about oil reaching vital engine parts at cold startup? Is it because the positive displacement pump isn't turning as fast due to the engine cranking slower (starter motor can't turn the engine as fast due to thicker oil in the engine or whatever) on colder days?

That would be the only plausible explanation for all the hullabaloo about oil flow at cold startup. Makes me wonder if temperatures in the twenties really make that much of a difference between a 5wXX, 10wXX, or even a 15wXX.

Ulimately I think of this as more of an issue with vehicles that are actually driven in sub-zero temps. For a motorcycle I think this is a moot point other than ensuring the oil is thick enough to keep proper pressure at hot idle.


If the oil is very think at very cold temperatures, then it's possible the PD oil pump could hit pressure relief even at low cold startup idle speeds. That's why you want a oil that flow well when very cold (ie, 0W-xx or 5W-xx).

In a situation where super thick oil vs one that flows much better at cold temperatures, if the lubrication of parts that rely on 'splash' type of lubrication - like piston skirts & rings - then it's possible those parts may lack some lubrication until the oil warms up some after start-up. Parts that are supplied with oil under pressure from the PD oil pump are less prone to lack of oil supply in a very cold start-up, unless it's so cold that the oil is un-pumpable.

Oil pressure doesn't really have much to do with the actual lubrication of parts. Oil pressure is just a measure of how much force it takes to move a given volume of oil through an oiling system. Proper part lubrication is mainly dependent on getting the correct volume of oil supply to the parts. If the same oil volume gets there with less pressure, then the lubrication is satisfactory unless the oil is so thin that the MOFT is inadequate to keep parts separated.

Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5395716 04/06/20 05:41 PM
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BusyLittleShop Offline
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix


What keeps parts from rubbing on each other is the oil viscosity. The thicker the oil viscosity, the higher the MOFT.


The Importance of Viscosity?
Quote Blackstone Labs

The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important
as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness
it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending
lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased
efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the
lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil’s ability
to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn’t sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a
heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as
the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to
the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic
transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick
(sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of
transmissions will have a similar life span. We don’t find any
significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.


Larry L
Have a Wheelie NICE day
94 RC45 #2 58,000 on 30 Grade, Currently Mobil 1 5W30 SN
2002 Camaro Mobil 1 5W30
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk



Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: BusyLittleShop] #5395797 04/06/20 07:06 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Posts: 23,686
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix

What keeps parts from rubbing on each other is the oil viscosity. The thicker the oil viscosity, the higher the MOFT.

The Importance of Viscosity?
Quote Blackstone Labs

The viscosity, or thickness of the oil, is not nearly as important
as many people think. Oil retains its nature no matter what thickness
it is.Think about this: automakers are continually recommending
lighter multi-grade oil in new engines. The reason is increased
efficiency. It takes power to pump oil through an engine, and the
lighter the oil, the less power required to pump it. The oil’s ability
to act like a solid and protect parts is not related to its thickness.
If that doesn’t sound quite right, consider this: The gears in a
heavy duty Allison automatic transmission are doing the same work as
the same machine equipped with an Eaton manual transmission. Due to
the hydraulics of the automatic, it runs on a 10W automatic
transmission oil.But the manual transmission uses a very thick
(sometimes up to 90W)gear lube oil. The gears of both types of
transmissions will have a similar life span. We don’t find any
significant differences in wear, regardless of oil thickness.


You need to stop referencing Blackstone as experts in tribology. The stuff they say about lubrication is non-sense, they are not experts in tribology.
https://www.google.com/search?channel=cus2&client=firefox-b-1-d&q=tribology+definition

Viscosity certainly is the most important factor in keeping parts from rubbing on each other.

Read this article by Machinery Lubrication. The oil viscosity is what keeps parts separated. When parts start rubbing on each other is when the anti-wear and anti-friction additives are for to reduce the rubbing wear.
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30835/lubricant-film-strength

Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5395806 04/06/20 07:13 PM
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Bonz Offline
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ZeeOSix, that's the only source that ever gets quoted by BLS and does it in every thread. Just have to get used to it.

Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: Bonz] #5395845 04/06/20 07:55 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by Bonz
ZeeOSix, that's the only source that ever gets quoted by BLS and does it in every thread. Just have to get used to it.


Yeah, Blackstone info shows that they obviously are not triboloy experts.

Re: KTM 1190 Adventure oil viscosity? [Re: vfrkent] #5395861 04/06/20 08:20 PM
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02SE Offline
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I miss the old BLS pics of Synthetic oil represented as uniformly sized balls, and Mineral oil as different sized balls, triangles, squares, etc...

grin

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