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Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: NO2] #5390863 04/01/20 11:22 AM
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javacontour Offline
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Actually, I think it's been proven time and time again that vehicles are just as affordable as they were two generations ago.

What I could find is that since 1953 to 2020, the average inflation rate for cars has been 1.67% The overall inflation rate over that same period is 3.44%

Cars have been rising in price at about 1/2 the rate of goods in general, meaning cars are MORE affordable today, not less.


Originally Posted by NO2
Has anyone else noticed that new vehicles are becoming unaffordable? Average purchase price is upwards of $35K. Continuing to increase fuel economy standards is actually counterproductive. It costs a lot of money to continually increase fuel standards, and we are starting to approach the point where it may not be technologically feasible without severe compromises in power, safety, and affordability. And people don't want them. Even the switch to DI engines comes at a cost - more frequent oil changes and $400 intake clean-outs. Was any money saved - at all?

Look what happened in Europe with widespread switch to diesel during the past few decades. Widespread asthma due to excessive PM2.5, and barely any increase in economy. Terrible health consequences, especially for children.

I think the manufacturers have done a remarkable job with heavier vehicles, like pickups. 18-20MPG is pretty amazing. Any anyone who wants really good mileage can buy a hybrid, although most are not cost effective.

How many new vehicles will be sold if the average cost is driven up to $45000 or $60000?



network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: Propflux01] #5390898 04/01/20 12:00 PM
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grampi Offline
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Originally Posted by Propflux01
Originally Posted by grampi
What I find even more interesting is why so many people seem to have a phobia about thinner oils...




I can see why, considering most “eco” type cars seem to be moving to a heavier oil, like a 5w-40 and such. Gotta be a reason their not running a 0w-16 in them.

No doubt there's a reason, I just don't think it's because thinner oils offer less protection than thicker ones...

Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: jstert] #5390906 04/01/20 12:08 PM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by jstert
i most commonly see -w40, some -w30, never -w20 in indonesian and philippine big box and hardware stores during my long stays there 2-3 times per year.





Yes but those places are set in their ways from generation to generation. They still do vulcanizing for crying out loud.


2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: Kamele0N] #5390966 04/01/20 01:19 PM
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wemay Offline
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The trend towards lower viscosity motor oils, increased MPG and EVs will continue. (Fist pounds on the desk at the CAFE HQ somewhere in Metropolis).

Last edited by MolaKule; 04/01/20 01:27 PM.

2019 Volkswagen Passat Wolfsburg TSI: STP Euro 5W40, STP S11784XL
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: RGT 5W30, H/K Filter
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: PimTac] #5390985 04/01/20 01:50 PM
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Skippy722 Online Happy
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Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Best of both worlds, 0w40!




How does that figure?


It gives me the warm fuzzies when I put it into my cars.


2019 Ram 1500 Classic
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: jeepman3071] #5390996 04/01/20 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jeepman3071
I find it interesting the concerns about using thinner oils for CAFE requirements when low tension piston rings in many vehicles are causing more oil burning than ever before. 1 quart of oil every 800 miles is somehow justified to get .5 better mpg? Do they test tail pipe emissions before or after the vehicle is burning that much oil? What about the mining for precious metals to replace all those clogged cat converters?

I think driving an econobox that gets 35 mpg and burns no oil would be better for long term emissions compared to one that gets 35.5 mpg but burns 1 quart of oil every 1000 miles.


My Focus 1.0 EcoBoost uses 0w-20 and in 87,000 miles I’ve never added a single drop of oil with 5,000 - 7,500 OCIs.


Whatever's on sale...
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: grampi] #5391046 04/01/20 03:50 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by Propflux01
Originally Posted by grampi
What I find even more interesting is why so many people seem to have a phobia about thinner oils...

I can see why, considering most “eco” type cars seem to be moving to a heavier oil, like a 5w-40 and such. Gotta be a reason their not running a 0w-16 in them.

No doubt there's a reason, I just don't think it's because thinner oils offer less protection than thicker ones...


What else is tied directly to viscosity besides the MOFT, which is what keeps parts from contacting each other? (rhetorical question).



Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: Skippy722] #5391048 04/01/20 03:55 PM
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PimTac Offline
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Best of both worlds, 0w40!




How does that figure?


It gives me the warm fuzzies when I put it into my cars.





I thought you were going to say the 0w covers the thin side and the 40 the thick side.


2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: Kamele0N] #5391060 04/01/20 04:08 PM
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My 2003 Civic Hybrid went 300,000 km on 0W20 and 5W20. I don't see any issues in putting it in a vehicle like that. On my elderly father's Ram 1500 with the 5.7 hemi, I put in 5W30 even though it calls for 5W20. It is nice to see China again from satellite pics now that the air pollution has decreased. I hope the fuel efficiency numbers are quickly restored. I have friends who lived in L.A and New York in the 70's. They couldn't believe how much the air quality had improved when they returned to visit 25 to 30 years later. As an asthma sufferer, any amount that air pollution can be decreased is a joy to my lungs!

Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: kschachn] #5391077 04/01/20 04:29 PM
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Kamele0N Offline OP
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Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
laugh it seems that you Will be driving again with 10wX & 15wX in your sumps...

How is the winter rating a "thick oil"? That's the second time I've seen you make that statement.

Which is thicker, a 10W-30 or a 0W-40?


It really depends what your (local) market is selling....

Here in EU...majority of grades comes in 5w40...5w30........10w40 viscosities...

Aprox 10years ago EU started to fancy 5w30...that became our "CAFE" grade....all Diesel DPF PCMOs here are in Sae30 viscosity.....
But be advised that 0Wxy grades are not that popular over here...
And also that our 5w30 ACEA oils are thicker than yours in API/ILSAC...

So in reality you have plenty of 5w30/5w40 /10w40 options on market.....followed by some 15w40...

0Wxy is a rarity here....sae20 also!

10w30&15w30 also a rarity....for agricultural use only (STOU/UTTO oils mostly)

Do you understand now?

[Linked Image]


2008 Toyota Yaris 1ND-TV 1.4 D4-D Tech9 (Shell?) 5W30 C3 VW 504/507
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10W-40
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: blufeb95] #5391146 04/01/20 06:01 PM
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fdcg27 Offline
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Originally Posted by blufeb95
Doesn't that $35k figure a mean figure, which is easily skewed by the sales of luxo cars and full sized trucks, I'd say we really need a graph that shows the sales in several price brackets to get a better picture and a better idea of what the median sales price is, not the mean price


What we need is to see an actual calculation of retail transaction prices divided by the number of transactions.
Guarantee you that you won't get an average (ignore mean) of $35K.
Mean is a little misleading in this case.
For us, we've always valued fuel economy and we're way too practical to pay $35K for what's after all no more than a means of going where you want or need to go when you need or want to go there.
Frugality? Filled both our DDs today. The Forester got 31.2 mpg while the HAH got 48.3 mpg.
Cost 1.299/gal for the Accord and 1.369/gal for the Subie, different stations.
Pretty spendy, huh:)


18 Accord Hybrid 30K HGMO 0W-20
17 Forester 36K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 115K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 119K M1HM 5W-30
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: Kamele0N] #5391152 04/01/20 06:06 PM
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wemay Offline
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I wonder if like in U.S. sold Hyundai/KIA vehicles, Makes sold in Europe recommend one viscosity but allow for other, thicker ones.


2019 Volkswagen Passat Wolfsburg TSI: STP Euro 5W40, STP S11784XL
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: RGT 5W30, H/K Filter
Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: vw7674] #5391172 04/01/20 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by vw7674
."....54 mpg average by 2025"?
I did not know Obama planned for us all to be riding motorcycles.
Cool.


We have 6 motorcycles. None of them get 54 mpg.

Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: javacontour] #5391215 04/01/20 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by javacontour
Actually, I think it's been proven time and time again that vehicles are just as affordable as they were two generations ago.

What I could find is that since 1953 to 2020, the average inflation rate for cars has been 1.67% The overall inflation rate over that same period is 3.44%

Cars have been rising in price at about 1/2 the rate of goods in general, meaning cars are MORE affordable today, not less.



I agree. Not to mention how cars are a magnitude of order better than 50 years ago


Re: Thicker oils are coming back to USA [Re: Kamele0N] #5391217 04/01/20 07:07 PM
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kschachn Offline
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Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Do you understand now?

No sorry. That still makes no sense.


1994 BMW 530i, 252K
1996 Honda Accord, 288K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 434K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 284K
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