2019/2020 VW Jetta GLI

Originally Posted by edyvw

What? New MQB? SUV oriented? For the love of God. I see you just ventured into VW world.



lol

Was thinking same thing
 
Anybody know what the current going sales price is for the GTI or GLI relative to MSRP? That 72 months at 0% is pretty intriguing...
 
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by edyvw

What? New MQB? SUV oriented? For the love of God. I see you just ventured into VW world.



lol

Was thinking same thing



Lol yourself.

What platform is used for the TIguan and the Atlas?

It definitely has severe compromises for the Jetta Sedan as I noted.

Make you argument instead of casting aspersions.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
What follows is the truth of ownership - not a bunch of whimsy.

Who are you? I am a M.E and parts, tooling and process designer and quality engineer who has worked for Bell Labs, AT&T and in partnership with BOSCH, Tesla and GM and Sumitomo in and advanced materials and parts development.
_______________________________________

I have a leased 2019 S Jetta with 6m.

My overall impression is the car is a cheap piece of junk......




ARCO, you are probably the most 'down' on the new Jetta of anyone i've heard or read from...
Doesn't invalidate your opinion, just an observation.



Ha ha. I'm not paid to sell the thing. Real owner report after over a year driving.

I'm sure the GLI is better and the GTI better Still.

Even then, the mall windscreen, high cowl and poor sightlines and FWD only and no handbrake would be an absolute dealbreaker.

Plus the 1.4t should be quick enough for 97% of drivers. It has the equivalent torque and HP of a 2.8L V6 from 1700-4500 RPM.
Where you use most of the power. How much do you want other than bragging rights?
 
Originally Posted by edyvw


What? New MQB? SUV oriented? For the love of God. I see you just ventured into VW world.


I was driving a '63 beetle in 1974.

A Rabbit GTI in '83

A Fox in '88

Again, what platform are the Tiguan and Atlas on in the U.S. Market, and when?
 
Thank you everyone for the (mostly positive) feedback! So let me try to address the questions y'all had. First, I'm not sure that going from RWD to FWD is going to be a deal breaker. Only way to find out is to do the test drive I think. As far as some of the tuning comments, I've read that there is one tune that won't even void the warranty. I believe it gets tuned to 290 HP on 87 octane, which seems like for this car would make it lightning quick. I'm aware that this isn't a race car and I don't intend to go crazy with modifications. As far as my job security, I work for an electric company so we're all still working and will be no matter how bad it gets. That's actually part of the reason why I'm thinking of getting a car at this time, there are some really good 0% deals.

Let me also say what kind of cars I like because some of you brought up the Golf. I'm not a fan of hatchbacks so that's out. It's just personal preference, I prefer coupes and sedans. I also want a manual transmission. This again, is personal preference. I know that nowadays automatics are better for performance, but as I said earlier, this isn't going to be a race car. I don't care about things like Android/Apple Car play, backup cameras, brake assist, lane assist, etc. In fact, I rolled my eyes when I was reading the Car and Driver review of the GLI and one of the cons was 'display screen too small'. I've done a little bit of research and I'd say that I've got it narrowed down to three cars. In no particular order: Jetta GLI, Honda Accord Coupe V6, Infiniti G37 S sedan. The Jetta may be the front runner right now because I can get it brand new. The other two cars are nearly impossible to find in the trims I mentioned with a manual transmission. To sum up, I'd like a coupe/sedan with a manual transmission that's reliable but also has some quickness.
 
I would bet that a new GLI would have the nicest shifting transmission of the three... also 'cuz it'd be brand new. Not "pre-knackered" synchro's and also VW's do have smooth transaxles and VW does choose lubricants that reinforces this.

Also, another comment: interesting that you concern yourself mostly about the drive quality and not about the peripherals (I call it fluff); same here.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Cdn17Sport6MT
I would bet that a new GLI would have the nicest shifting transmission of the three... also 'cuz it'd be brand new. Not "pre-knackered" synchro's and also VW's do have smooth transaxles and VW does choose lubricants that reinforces this.

Also, another comment: interesting that you concern yourself mostly about the drive quality and not about the peripherals (I call it fluff); same here.



Yeah it seems like people like me and you are a dying breed. It's appalling how much people want the car to do nowadays rather than do it themselves.
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by edyvw


What? New MQB? SUV oriented? For the love of God. I see you just ventured into VW world.


I was driving a '63 beetle in 1974.

A Rabbit GTI in '83

A Fox in '88

Again, what platform are the Tiguan and Atlas on in the U.S. Market, and when?



You do realize that MQB is world platform, right?
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by edyvw

What? New MQB? SUV oriented? For the love of God. I see you just ventured into VW world.



lol

Was thinking same thing



Lol yourself.

What platform is used for the TIguan and the Atlas?

It definitely has severe compromises for the Jetta Sedan as I noted.

Make you argument instead of casting aspersions.



What argument? That the MQB is not an SUV platform? That doesn't take any arguing, it's just true. There are millions of vehicles based on the MQB around the world. Cars, SUV's, CUV's, whatever you want to call them they are all essentially the same thing with different body shapes, wheelbases, and ride heights. Depending on vehicle price there are other things thrown in, independent rear suspension, aluminum control arms, etc.
 
Originally Posted by TCU_Adam
Thank you everyone for the (mostly positive) feedback! So let me try to address the questions y'all had. First, I'm not sure that going from RWD to FWD is going to be a deal breaker. Only way to find out is to do the test drive I think. As far as some of the tuning comments, I've read that there is one tune that won't even void the warranty. I believe it gets tuned to 290 HP on 87 octane, which seems like for this car would make it lightning quick. I'm aware that this isn't a race car and I don't intend to go crazy with modifications. As far as my job security, I work for an electric company so we're all still working and will be no matter how bad it gets. That's actually part of the reason why I'm thinking of getting a car at this time, there are some really good 0% deals.

Let me also say what kind of cars I like because some of you brought up the Golf. I'm not a fan of hatchbacks so that's out. It's just personal preference, I prefer coupes and sedans. I also want a manual transmission. This again, is personal preference. I know that nowadays automatics are better for performance, but as I said earlier, this isn't going to be a race car. I don't care about things like Android/Apple Car play, backup cameras, brake assist, lane assist, etc. In fact, I rolled my eyes when I was reading the Car and Driver review of the GLI and one of the cons was 'display screen too small'. I've done a little bit of research and I'd say that I've got it narrowed down to three cars. In no particular order: Jetta GLI, Honda Accord Coupe V6, Infiniti G37 S sedan. The Jetta may be the front runner right now because I can get it brand new. The other two cars are nearly impossible to find in the trims I mentioned with a manual transmission. To sum up, I'd like a coupe/sedan with a manual transmission that's reliable but also has some quickness.


Have you considered the WRX? It checks the performance boxes, and is only offered currently in sedan form.

They're killler cars. I had a 2016 for 3 years. Higher performance than anything you've yet listed. And, in my opinion, it's the best bang for the buck, performance to price, of anything on the market. Also highest resale value in its class.

Subaru has also reportedly fixed a couple of the main problems I had with my 2016 - rev hang, and inadequate brakes (heard there's far less rev hang for the 2020 model, and they went to 2-piece brake rotors for 2020, also).

I had tremendous amounts of fun flogging mine up and down the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina.

Excellent, excellent chassis. Handled much better than my fiancee's current ride (see my dig), due to symmetrical nature of powertrain, low center of gravity. Very easy to service, also.

I miss the car. Only got rid of it to save some $$$ because I have a truck that's paid for, and I used my WRX as a weekend/fun car. I definitely want another WRX or something like it, again one day.

It was my "poor man's 911"!
 
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Lol yourself.

What platform is used for the TIguan and the Atlas?

It definitely has severe compromises for the Jetta Sedan as I noted.

From the issues you noted, which ones do you specifically attribute to MQB?

BTW, MQB isn't really a platform. It's more of a design approach that tries to standardize on some components.


Quote
Even then, the mall windscreen, high cowl and poor sightlines and FWD only and no handbrake

I think you just described majority of new cars currently being produced.
smile.gif


The high body lines and therefore short/small windows is a result of cars needing to meet the latest safety/crash test requirements, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by TCU_Adam
Thank you everyone for the (mostly positive) feedback! So let me try to address the questions y'all had. First, I'm not sure that going from RWD to FWD is going to be a deal breaker. Only way to find out is to do the test drive I think. As far as some of the tuning comments, I've read that there is one tune that won't even void the warranty. I believe it gets tuned to 290 HP on 87 octane, which seems like for this car would make it lightning quick. I'm aware that this isn't a race car and I don't intend to go crazy with modifications. As far as my job security, I work for an electric company so we're all still working and will be no matter how bad it gets. That's actually part of the reason why I'm thinking of getting a car at this time, there are some really good 0% deals.

Let me also say what kind of cars I like because some of you brought up the Golf. I'm not a fan of hatchbacks so that's out. It's just personal preference, I prefer coupes and sedans. I also want a manual transmission. This again, is personal preference. I know that nowadays automatics are better for performance, but as I said earlier, this isn't going to be a race car. I don't care about things like Android/Apple Car play, backup cameras, brake assist, lane assist, etc. In fact, I rolled my eyes when I was reading the Car and Driver review of the GLI and one of the cons was 'display screen too small'. I've done a little bit of research and I'd say that I've got it narrowed down to three cars. In no particular order: Jetta GLI, Honda Accord Coupe V6, Infiniti G37 S sedan. The Jetta may be the front runner right now because I can get it brand new. The other two cars are nearly impossible to find in the trims I mentioned with a manual transmission. To sum up, I'd like a coupe/sedan with a manual transmission that's reliable but also has some quickness.


Have you considered the WRX? It checks the performance boxes, and is only offered currently in sedan form.

They're killler cars. I had a 2016 for 3 years. Higher performance than anything you've yet listed. And, in my opinion, it's the best bang for the buck, performance to price, of anything on the market. Also highest resale value in its class.

Subaru has also reportedly fixed a couple of the main problems I had with my 2016 - rev hang, and inadequate brakes (heard there's far less rev hang for the 2020 model, and they went to 2-piece brake rotors for 2020, also).

I had tremendous amounts of fun flogging mine up and down the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina.

Excellent, excellent chassis. Handled much better than my fiancee's current ride (see my dig), due to symmetrical nature of powertrain, low center of gravity. Very easy to service, also.

I miss the car. Only got rid of it to save some $$$ because I have a truck that's paid for, and I used my WRX as a weekend/fun car. I definitely want another WRX or something like it, again one day.

It was my "poor man's 911"!



I had a feeling someone would bring up the WRX. I had a base model Impreza (09) that went through 2 engines and a transmission. Granted this was a few years ago, but I think the car is very fragile when it comes to mechanics. It also ate oil like no tomorrow and having the company justify it by saying 'it says so in the manual' is just bad customer service. When they got sued and lost an oil consumption lawsuit a couple of years ago, I basically vowed to never buy a Subaru again. They used to be my favorite cars when I was in my teenage years but the first experience was so bad that I don't know if I can ever give it a second chance. I will say, I haven't heard too many issues from ~2006 model years and older but we're talking about a 15 year old car at that point.
 
Originally Posted by TCU_Adam
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by TCU_Adam
Thank you everyone for the (mostly positive) feedback! So let me try to address the questions y'all had. First, I'm not sure that going from RWD to FWD is going to be a deal breaker. Only way to find out is to do the test drive I think. As far as some of the tuning comments, I've read that there is one tune that won't even void the warranty. I believe it gets tuned to 290 HP on 87 octane, which seems like for this car would make it lightning quick. I'm aware that this isn't a race car and I don't intend to go crazy with modifications. As far as my job security, I work for an electric company so we're all still working and will be no matter how bad it gets. That's actually part of the reason why I'm thinking of getting a car at this time, there are some really good 0% deals.

Let me also say what kind of cars I like because some of you brought up the Golf. I'm not a fan of hatchbacks so that's out. It's just personal preference, I prefer coupes and sedans. I also want a manual transmission. This again, is personal preference. I know that nowadays automatics are better for performance, but as I said earlier, this isn't going to be a race car. I don't care about things like Android/Apple Car play, backup cameras, brake assist, lane assist, etc. In fact, I rolled my eyes when I was reading the Car and Driver review of the GLI and one of the cons was 'display screen too small'. I've done a little bit of research and I'd say that I've got it narrowed down to three cars. In no particular order: Jetta GLI, Honda Accord Coupe V6, Infiniti G37 S sedan. The Jetta may be the front runner right now because I can get it brand new. The other two cars are nearly impossible to find in the trims I mentioned with a manual transmission. To sum up, I'd like a coupe/sedan with a manual transmission that's reliable but also has some quickness.


Have you considered the WRX? It checks the performance boxes, and is only offered currently in sedan form.

They're killler cars. I had a 2016 for 3 years. Higher performance than anything you've yet listed. And, in my opinion, it's the best bang for the buck, performance to price, of anything on the market. Also highest resale value in its class.

Subaru has also reportedly fixed a couple of the main problems I had with my 2016 - rev hang, and inadequate brakes (heard there's far less rev hang for the 2020 model, and they went to 2-piece brake rotors for 2020, also).

I had tremendous amounts of fun flogging mine up and down the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina.

Excellent, excellent chassis. Handled much better than my fiancee's current ride (see my dig), due to symmetrical nature of powertrain, low center of gravity. Very easy to service, also.

I miss the car. Only got rid of it to save some $$$ because I have a truck that's paid for, and I used my WRX as a weekend/fun car. I definitely want another WRX or something like it, again one day.

It was my "poor man's 911"!



I had a feeling someone would bring up the WRX. I had a base model Impreza (09) that went through 2 engines and a transmission. Granted this was a few years ago, but I think the car is very fragile when it comes to mechanics. It also ate oil like no tomorrow and having the company justify it by saying 'it says so in the manual' is just bad customer service. When they got sued and lost an oil consumption lawsuit a couple of years ago, I basically vowed to never buy a Subaru again. They used to be my favorite cars when I was in my teenage years but the first experience was so bad that I don't know if I can ever give it a second chance. I will say, I haven't heard too many issues from ~2006 model years and older but we're talking about a 15 year old car at that point.


Well, everyone has their own experience to go by. Personally, that was my only experience with Subaru. The only mechanical problem I had (other than brakes that were inadequate for the kind of driving I did, which was, honestly, track driving on the street), was the factory leaving an exhaust header stud nut off, which resulted in an exhaust leak and noise after a few months. It was repaired by the dealership, although the car did sit there for a long time. But Subaru of America did give me a free 7-year, 100,000-mile extended warranty for my trouble. I was happy with that. And the dealership always gave me a free loaner car.

I heard of the oil consumption problems with the old Subaru 2.5L engines, due to faulty piston ringlands. I experienced no such problem with my 2016 WRX 2.0 FA20DIT. But, Subaru was aware of these problems with the 2.5, and made sure the new-gen WRX (2015 and up) didn't experience these issues. It's a completely new design vs. the old 2.5L.

I'm also familiar with proper engine break-in procedures, and I made sure I ran mine in hard, with gradually increasing RPMs, plenty of engine braking, varying of speeds and gears, and heat cycling. As a result, mine never used oil in any appreciable amount during the 3 years and 40,000+ miles that I drove it. And the engine spent plenty of time at high RPM.

I used Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 only.
 
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by TCU_Adam
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Originally Posted by TCU_Adam
Thank you everyone for the (mostly positive) feedback! So let me try to address the questions y'all had. First, I'm not sure that going from RWD to FWD is going to be a deal breaker. Only way to find out is to do the test drive I think. As far as some of the tuning comments, I've read that there is one tune that won't even void the warranty. I believe it gets tuned to 290 HP on 87 octane, which seems like for this car would make it lightning quick. I'm aware that this isn't a race car and I don't intend to go crazy with modifications. As far as my job security, I work for an electric company so we're all still working and will be no matter how bad it gets. That's actually part of the reason why I'm thinking of getting a car at this time, there are some really good 0% deals.

Let me also say what kind of cars I like because some of you brought up the Golf. I'm not a fan of hatchbacks so that's out. It's just personal preference, I prefer coupes and sedans. I also want a manual transmission. This again, is personal preference. I know that nowadays automatics are better for performance, but as I said earlier, this isn't going to be a race car. I don't care about things like Android/Apple Car play, backup cameras, brake assist, lane assist, etc. In fact, I rolled my eyes when I was reading the Car and Driver review of the GLI and one of the cons was 'display screen too small'. I've done a little bit of research and I'd say that I've got it narrowed down to three cars. In no particular order: Jetta GLI, Honda Accord Coupe V6, Infiniti G37 S sedan. The Jetta may be the front runner right now because I can get it brand new. The other two cars are nearly impossible to find in the trims I mentioned with a manual transmission. To sum up, I'd like a coupe/sedan with a manual transmission that's reliable but also has some quickness.


Have you considered the WRX? It checks the performance boxes, and is only offered currently in sedan form.

They're killler cars. I had a 2016 for 3 years. Higher performance than anything you've yet listed. And, in my opinion, it's the best bang for the buck, performance to price, of anything on the market. Also highest resale value in its class.

Subaru has also reportedly fixed a couple of the main problems I had with my 2016 - rev hang, and inadequate brakes (heard there's far less rev hang for the 2020 model, and they went to 2-piece brake rotors for 2020, also).

I had tremendous amounts of fun flogging mine up and down the Smoky Mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina.

Excellent, excellent chassis. Handled much better than my fiancee's current ride (see my dig), due to symmetrical nature of powertrain, low center of gravity. Very easy to service, also.

I miss the car. Only got rid of it to save some $$$ because I have a truck that's paid for, and I used my WRX as a weekend/fun car. I definitely want another WRX or something like it, again one day.

It was my "poor man's 911"!



I had a feeling someone would bring up the WRX. I had a base model Impreza (09) that went through 2 engines and a transmission. Granted this was a few years ago, but I think the car is very fragile when it comes to mechanics. It also ate oil like no tomorrow and having the company justify it by saying 'it says so in the manual' is just bad customer service. When they got sued and lost an oil consumption lawsuit a couple of years ago, I basically vowed to never buy a Subaru again. They used to be my favorite cars when I was in my teenage years but the first experience was so bad that I don't know if I can ever give it a second chance. I will say, I haven't heard too many issues from ~2006 model years and older but we're talking about a 15 year old car at that point.


Well, everyone has their own experience to go by. Personally, that was my only experience with Subaru. The only mechanical problem I had (other than brakes that were inadequate for the kind of driving I did, which was, honestly, track driving on the street), was the factory leaving an exhaust header stud nut off, which resulted in an exhaust leak and noise after a few months. It was repaired by the dealership, although the car did sit there for a long time. But Subaru of America did give me a free 7-year, 100,000-mile extended warranty for my trouble. I was happy with that. And the dealership always gave me a free loaner car.

I heard of the oil consumption problems with the old Subaru 2.5L engines, due to faulty piston ringlands. I experienced no such problem with my 2016 WRX 2.0 FA20DIT. But, Subaru was aware of these problems with the 2.5, and made sure the new-gen WRX (2015 and up) didn't experience these issues. It's a completely new design vs. the old 2.5L.

I'm also familiar with proper engine break-in procedures, and I made sure I ran mine in hard, with gradually increasing RPMs, plenty of engine braking, varying of speeds and gears, and heat cycling. As a result, mine never used oil in any appreciable amount during the 3 years and 40,000+ miles that I drove it. And the engine spent plenty of time at high RPM.

I used Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 only.


I think this fact might one day bring me back. I've looked recently and some people with Foresters are complaining that these engines are eating oil too, though it's not as widespread as I saw from models earlier that decade. I think at this point, I have too much PTSD from the Subaru brand
crazy.gif
 
Man, I can understand that.

Re: Foresters - I think proper engine break-in procedures are critical, not only to prevent oil consumption problems from improperly seated rings, but also to ensure that the engine reaches its power-producing potential.

I've seen Forester drivers (mostly lezbians with their dogs in the back). They don't look like, to me, that they're too concerned about ensuring proper piston ring seating and engine break-in!
 
Problem with new GLI is that it is targeting traditional buyers of Civic, Corolla etc. It is cheapen a lot. I am not sure whether GLI has independent rear suspension, but regular versions do not. GTI and Golf R are two that are pretty much same as Euro versions currently.
Generally VW's approach in the US now is going toward more appliance route while keepings Golf GTI and Golf R as two exotic models.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Problem with new GLI is that it is targeting traditional buyers of Civic, Corolla etc. It is cheapen a lot. I am not sure whether GLI has independent rear suspension, but regular versions do not. GTI and Golf R are two that are pretty much same as Euro versions currently.
Generally VW's approach in the US now is going toward more appliance route while keepings Golf GTI and Golf R as two exotic models.



Well they did drop the GTI engine into the GLI starting in 2019. I think if I remember correctly, the GLI beat the GTI when Car and Driver compared them. I know the Autobahn trim has the upgraded suspension but not sure about the S trim.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Lol yourself.

What platform is used for the TIguan and the Atlas?

It definitely has severe compromises for the Jetta Sedan as I noted.

From the issues you noted, which ones do you specifically attribute to MQB?

BTW, MQB isn't really a platform. It's more of a design approach that tries to standardize on some components.


Quote
Even then, the mall windscreen, high cowl and poor sightlines and FWD only and no handbrake

I think you just described majority of new cars currently being produced.
smile.gif


The high body lines and therefore short/small windows is a result of cars needing to meet the latest safety/crash test requirements, if I'm not mistaken.





It just seems worse in this sedan application. I noticed it right away in the dealership and really thought hard about the purchase just due to the fair- at-best forward view, largely due to the high front cowel and shortened windscreen A - Pillar intrusion was modest adn acceptable. I'm over 6' with a long-ish midsection and I'm still low "in the bunker" with the seat height correct for operating the clutch and general proper ergonomics.

I will say the vehicle has good ergonomics if you ignore the sightlines.

Other issue are the poor water management. I've never considered this until mine filled up with quarts of water.

Open the trunk lid - the water draining off the rear glass and goes right into the trunk channel and on my car and never exits.

Same with rear doors. I do park outside in the forest and I clean this area everytime I refuel.

Ive had time this winter when I couldn't open the rear doors, but after commuting and running the heat on HIGH for a half hour, I was able to open ther rear doors and large chunks or frozen ice dropped out from between the body and rubber door seals!

Another issue is due to the high trunk (boot) lid. The exist absolutely NO rearward visibility - unless looking at the clouds is considered such. Then, to make matter worse the sideview mirrors are a extremely small teardrop shape with modest area.

It all adds up to a MAJOR safety issue for traditional good drivers and a over reliance on warning nannies.

Terrible. Just Terrible.

- Ken
 
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