Recent Topics
APR dyno: Passat 2.0T 87 vs 93 Octane
by wemay - 05/25/20 09:31 AM
Quick Lane attempted to fraudulently upsell me
by Hermann - 05/25/20 08:58 AM
Frankenbrew question
by jdw1222 - 05/25/20 08:40 AM
Yamaha SHO Oil
by SDGolden - 05/25/20 08:33 AM
1909 Blackstone Oil Engine
by 2015_PSD - 05/25/20 08:22 AM
Garden of the Gods - Colorado Springs pictures
by wwillson - 05/25/20 07:17 AM
2008 Tundra tire rotation
by Amkeer - 05/25/20 06:35 AM
Interesting Read
by montero1 - 05/25/20 03:19 AM
1991 Indy 500 Pre-Race
by IMSA_Racing_Fan - 05/25/20 01:46 AM
Repairing acid stained wheels
by IMSA_Racing_Fan - 05/25/20 12:30 AM
Collection of Euro Oils
by js1956 - 05/24/20 10:29 PM
00 grease in my brush mower
by Elkins45 - 05/24/20 09:55 PM
Coolant UV Dye - for without flushing
by Ndx - 05/24/20 09:10 PM
STP S8A C&P
by mpack88 - 05/24/20 07:50 PM
Aprons
by buck91 - 05/24/20 07:35 PM
Oil Additives for GDI engines
by Drew99GT - 05/24/20 07:21 PM
Memorial Day - Veteran's Cemetery
by JeffKeryk - 05/24/20 07:18 PM
Newest Members
rickyradit, YogiTheCat, StevePLR, BBC_bias, rabblrouzr
71525 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
81 registered members (2010Civic, ArrestMeRedZ, amh, 53' Stude, 2009Edge, 2015_PSD, 5 invisible), 2,431 guests, and 40 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics305,839
Posts5,281,246
Members71,525
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
"Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag #5390326 03/31/20 04:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,227
wemay Online Happy OP
OP Online Happy
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,227
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikesc...even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/amp/

Originally Posted by Forbes

A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels. The results are reported in the journal Nature Sustainability.

Under current conditions, driving an electric car is better for the climate than conventional petrol cars in 95% of the world, the study finds.

The only exceptions are countries such as Poland, where the electricity network is still mostly based on coal-fired power generation.

In countries with a heavily decarbonised system such as Sweden and France, which have large amounts of renewable and nuclear generating capacity, the average lifetime emissions from electric cars are up to 70% lower than petrol cars, while in the UK, which is rapidly phasing out coal but still has a reasonable amount of gas-fired power plants, emissions are around 30% lower.

It’s not just cars – electric heating options are more climate-friendly, too. The study found that electric household heat pumps also produce lower emissions than fossil-fuel alternatives in 95% of the world. Heat pumps could reduce global CO2 emissions in 2050 by up to 0.8 gigatons per year – roughly equal to Germany’s current annual emissions.

“The idea that electric vehicles or electric heat pumps could increase emissions is essentially a myth,” said lead author Dr Florian Knobloch, from the University of Nijmegen. “We’ve seen a lot of discussion about this recently, with lots of disinformation going around. Here is a definitive study that can dispel those myths. We have run the numbers for all around the world, looking at a whole range of cars and heating systems.

“Even in our worst-case scenario, there would be a reduction in emissions in almost all cases. This insight should be very useful for policy-makers.”

The study  divided the world into 59 regions to account for differences in power generation and technology. In 53 of these regions – including the US, China and most of Europe – the findings show electric cars and heat pumps are already less emission-intensive than fossil fuel alternatives.

These 53 regions represent 95% of global transport and heating demand and, with energy production decarbonising worldwide, senior author Dr Jean-Francois Mercure from the University of Exeter said the “last few debatable cases will soon disappear.”

“Understanding the effect of low-carbon innovations on relevant sectors of the economy, such as heating and transport, is crucial for the development of effective policy,” said co-author Dr Pablo Salas, from the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership. “We hope our work can inform the policy process here in the UK and abroad, particularly around discussions of the new carbon targets under the Paris Agreement framework.”

The researchers carried out a life-cycle assessment in which calculated greenhouse gas emissions generated when using cars and heating systems, as well as in the production chain and waste processing for those sectors.




Last edited by wemay; 03/31/20 04:54 PM.

19 VW Passat Wolfsburg TSI: Castrol Edge Pro LL IV Fe 0W20 + VW oil filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5W30 + H/K oil filter
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390341 03/31/20 05:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,335
B
bullwinkle Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,335
Notice how they contradict themselves pretty quickly with "decarbonized system"! Of course, if you could recharge your electric car from wind or solar, it would be better for carbon emissions! Only takes a week to charge enough to go 10 miles here, though (in the land of heavy cloud cover & not enough consistent wind)!


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7 (MC), 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2), 11 Express 3500 6.0 (Fram PH10060 for now)
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390351 03/31/20 05:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 15,212
C
CT8 Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 15,212
Just wait until the Hydrogen revolution takes hold.!!


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390353 03/31/20 05:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,688
G
gfh77665 Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,688
Originally Posted by wemay
A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels.

Anytime anyone sees a "STUDY" the first thing you should do is consider the source of it, and who sponsored it. Pretty much every "STUDY" has an agenda, and a preconcieved conclusion behind it.

Acedemia is ever so slightly biased, if you havn't noticed yet! LOL

Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390354 03/31/20 05:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,659
C
Cujet Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,659
As a bit of a nerd, I've run the numbers too. My conclusion DOES NOT mirror theirs in a best case situation.

Furthermore, the claim that heat pumps are more efficient than direct modern fossil fuel heat is not based in fact.

The item that is true: Emissions are easier to control at a single source, one in near continuous operation.

CC NG power plant 64%, at the PP fence, 54% (some of the power is used to run the plant, and there are step up losses)
Grid losses 7%
Grid to wheel losses 38 to 41%. Not much leeway here, as grid AC gets converted to DC in the charger, the battery gets charged at a loss, the battery gives up it's charge at a loss, the electronics convert DC to AC and drive the motor(s) which have a peak efficiency around 90%.

The bottom line remains the same. Best case: 116,000 BTU worth of Natural Gas can power a Tesla 29 miles. (roughly the equivalent of a gallon of non ethanol gasoline)

Worst case: Coal 116,000 BTU will power a Tesla about 18 miles.

Last edited by Cujet; 03/31/20 05:30 PM.

People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: gfh77665] #5390365 03/31/20 05:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,041
B
bbhero Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 8,041
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by wemay

A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels.


Anytime anyone sees a "STUDY" the first thing you should do is consider the source of it, and who sponsored it. Pretty much every "STUDY" has an agenda, and a preconcieved conclusion behind it.

Acedemia is ever so slightly biased, if you havn't noticed yet! LOL



Exactly right in my opinion...^^^^^^^


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Cam2 Full synthetic 5w30 Carquest Blue 84356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: bbhero] #5390382 03/31/20 06:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,227
wemay Online Happy OP
OP Online Happy
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 12,227
Originally Posted by bbhero
Originally Posted by gfh77665
Originally Posted by wemay

A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels.


Anytime anyone sees a "STUDY" the first thing you should do is consider the source of it, and who sponsored it. Pretty much every "STUDY" has an agenda, and a preconcieved conclusion behind it.

Acedemia is ever so slightly biased, if you havn't noticed yet! LOL



Exactly right in my opinion...^^^^^^^


Yes, but that works in both directions. Lol.
cheers


19 VW Passat Wolfsburg TSI: Castrol Edge Pro LL IV Fe 0W20 + VW oil filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5W30 + H/K oil filter
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390387 03/31/20 06:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,022
P
Pelican Offline
Offline
P
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,022
Typical tunnel vision ! They don't account for the carbon produced in manufacturing either the whole car or just only the batteries.

There is no doubt IMO that electric cars are here to stay and grow, but it will not be the plug-ins only the fuel cell will grow as soon as the infrastructure gets set-up.

Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: Cujet] #5390400 03/31/20 06:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,058
B
bulwnkl Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,058
Originally Posted by Cujet
As a bit of a nerd, I've run the numbers too. My conclusion DOES NOT mirror theirs in a best case situation.

Furthermore, the claim that heat pumps are more efficient than direct modern fossil fuel heat is not based in fact.

The item that is true: Emissions are easier to control at a single source, one in near continuous operation.

CC NG power plant 64%, at the PP fence, 54% (some of the power is used to run the plant, and there are step up losses)
Grid losses 7%
Grid to wheel losses 38 to 41%. Not much leeway here, as grid AC gets converted to DC in the charger, the battery gets charged at a loss, the battery gives up it's charge at a loss, the electronics convert DC to AC and drive the motor(s) which have a peak efficiency around 90%.

The bottom line remains the same. Best case: 116,000 BTU worth of Natural Gas can power a Tesla 29 miles. (roughly the equivalent of a gallon of non ethanol gasoline)

Worst case: Coal 116,000 BTU will power a Tesla about 18 miles.


Should you include the fuel used to move gasoline from the bulk terminals (the BULK terminals, which are roughly analogous to large power plants, not small tank farms) to each gas station, and the energy used to pump it into and back out of the holding tanks? That seems like it would be a more even comparison to what you calculated for the all-electricity side.


I use speech recognition frequently. Please excuse any consequent grammatical or typographical errors.
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390409 03/31/20 06:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,770
W
Ws6 Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,770
Am I the only one that factors this in as a zero when assessing vehicular suitability?


2019 CX5 Grand Touring Reserve
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390410 03/31/20 06:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,328
P10crew Offline
Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,328
I’m throwin the BS flag on that one! no-no

Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390415 03/31/20 07:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 944
W
walterjay Offline
Offline
W
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 944
I never did believe for a minute that electric vehicles were zero emissions. That electric has to be produced by something. The overall mix of wind and solar is very small. Lots of fossil fuels used to generate. I do believe that heat pumps, under the right conditions can save on emissions as they are capable of producing about three times more energy than they use. I have used a geothermal ground loop heat pump at my house for 22 years and have seen the results.

Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390425 03/31/20 07:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 639
D
Dinoburner Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 639
Since cars are mostly plastic now which comes from petroleum and the fact much rare earth compounds are required in electrics it doesn`t seem they are all good.


77 Chev stepside 454 Casteroil syn
95 GMC 4wd mobil syn
2016 Equinox LTZ V6 dealer
Kubota L5030 T6
Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390431 03/31/20 07:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,328
P10crew Offline
Offline
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,328
One day there will be a movie called “Blood lithium “

Re: "Electric Cars Are Cleaner, Even When The Power Comes From Coal" -Forbes Mag [Re: wemay] #5390440 03/31/20 07:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 953
E
E365 Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 953
Easily believable. The energy efficiency of gasoline and diesel powered vehicles is atrocious. The Tesla Model Y is around FOUR TIMES as energy efficient as similar sized AWD crossovers.

[Linked Image]


Whatever's on sale...
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™