Non Detergent Oil

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10ecfarmer

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There is a big discussion over at Cattle Today about non detergent oil. It amazes me that today in 2020, people will not read the manual that that came with their engine, nor follow the recommendations in the manual.

But I do have a question or 2, when did Briggs and Strattion and other small engine manufactures, stop recommending non detergent oil or whatever term term was used back then ?
I'm guessing sometime in the 60's for a oil that had some detergent..
And what was 1st API classification of what we called a high detergent oil in the 60's, start SB,SC,SE,SF????

Appreciate your time,
TennFarmer
 
I believe it was in the 60's, as I've seen recommendations for "SAE 30 non-detergent" specifically on Briggs engines from the early 50s and 60s. I think the idea behind this was they are splash lubricated and the contaminants would settle to the bottom. I actually worked on a pump that had an old Wisconsin engine and this was clearly the case by the amount of sludge on the bottom of the oil sump. I think in the 60s the manufacturers realized that if the oil was changed at consistent intervals it would flush out the contaminants altogether.

I still have a few small engine customers who are older and insist on using SAE 30 ND because "that's what we used back in the day and it works". I tell them if they supply it, I will use it at their request even though it goes against the manufacturer recommendations. I have about a quart of SAE 30ND that I use for pressure washer pumps where it is recommended, and maybe a fan motor or two.
 
Originally Posted by 10ecfarmer
... I'm guessing sometime in the 60's for a oil that had some detergent..
And what was 1st API classification of what we called a high detergent oil in the 60's, start SB,SC,SE,SF???? ...
Auto manufacturers specified detergent oil years before the S_ system replaced the old ML, MM, MS designations around 1970. My 1962 Chevrolet owners manual, typically, specifies MS (which stood for Motor Severe) detergent oil. SA and SB grades were already long-obsolete for then-modern engines when the S_ system took over, and SC was obsolescent, maybe SD, too. SE was the first S_ designation applied in large numbers to up-to-date respectable brands---I think.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by 10ecfarmer
There is a big discussion over at Cattle Today about non detergent oil. It amazes me that today in 2020, people will not read the manual that that came with their engine, nor follow the recommendations in the manual.

But I do have a question or 2, when did Briggs and Strattion and other small engine manufactures, stop recommending non detergent oil or whatever term term was used back then ?
I'm guessing sometime in the 60's for a oil that had some detergent..
And what was 1st API classification of what we called a high detergent oil in the 60's, start SB,SC,SE,SF????

Appreciate your time,
TennFarmer




Non detergent oil should still be used in a Mercruiser trim pump.
 
Originally Posted by Donald
Originally Posted by 10ecfarmer
There is a big discussion over at Cattle Today about non detergent oil. It amazes me that today in 2020, people will not read the manual that that came with their engine, nor follow the recommendations in the manual.

But I do have a question or 2, when did Briggs and Strattion and other small engine manufactures, stop recommending non detergent oil or whatever term term was used back then ?
I'm guessing sometime in the 60's for a oil that had some detergent..
And what was 1st API classification of what we called a high detergent oil in the 60's, start SB,SC,SE,SF????

Appreciate your time,
TennFarmer




Non detergent oil should still be used in a Mercruiser trim pump.

There are applications that it is a good choice for. An engine is not one of them.
 
I had a 1968 John Deere 112 riding mower and the owners manual called for "sae 30 detergent oil"
Engine options were Kohler or Tecumseh.
Not sure why this non detergent oil myth still lives, todays non detergent oils also contain little to no anti wear additives, so they are altogether terrible to put in an engine.
 
Here is an oldie. No mention of detergent but they wanted 20 grade oil.

1D69A934-694D-46B6-B774-2CE28A98768D.png
 
My granddad opened a small engine shop back in ~63 after he retired. He passed away in 67, and so a fair number of old engines were kicking around the family for years. I still have a few from 1958 up, and the only one that specified "non-detergent oil" was that 58 slant-carb vertical shaft. So I'd put the change in recommendation somewhere between 1960 and 65.
 
Originally Posted by cronk
.
Not sure why this non detergent oil myth still lives, todays non detergent oils also contain little to no anti wear additives, so they are altogether terrible to put in an engine.

Most of the non detergent stuff I've see is all API SA, which I don't think is much more than solvent refined oil thrown in a bottle, I think SB at least requires anti-foaming and some anti wear additives.
 
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by 10ecfarmer
There is a big discussion over at Cattle Today about non detergent oil. TennFarmer


There are applications that it is a good choice for. An engine is not one of them.

I have a liter (or maybe it's a quart) of non detergent motor oil that I use for general lubrication, using a real "dip dip" oil can. I've had it at least 25 years and have lots left. There are hardly any places that need general lubrication any more.
 
Not reading the owners manual in an effort to use the correct oil is almost as silly as asking for a thick 5w-30 viscosity oil. Just dumb.
 
My ‘77 Vespa P200E specs ND30 for both the oil injection system and the separate gear box. I've read the manual, but I disregard it, and run synthetic 2-stroke in the engine, and synthetic 4-stroke in the transmission, and they seem to work well.
 
Does anyone have absolute evidence of an engine, compressor, pump, etc damaged by modern detergent oil used in an application calling for ND?

I'm not talking about specialty applications for industry, labs, etc. I mean common stuff like items pertaining to this forum.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by user52165
Does anyone have absolute evidence of an engine, compressor, pump, etc damaged by modern detergent oil used in an application calling for ND?

I'm not talking about specialty applications for industry, labs, etc. I mean common stuff like items pertaining to this forum.


I had a pressure washer w/ Cat pump, that I used Cat oil in till it started getting water in the oil. So I started using Rotella 15-40, and changing maybe once a year. That sucker worked fine for years, I upgraded, and sold it, told him what I did, he kept doin the same. As far as I know, pump still workin!
 
Originally Posted by Powerglide
Not reading the owners manual in an effort to use the correct oil is almost as silly as asking for a thick 5w-30 viscosity oil. Just dumb.

Hmmm, maybe the OM is no longer available. Naw, that's just dumb...
 
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