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Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5388034 03/28/20 03:18 PM
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Posts: 315
bachman Offline
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Originally Posted by Michael_P
I'm a <1000RPM guy and have been since I have been for over 30 years for the same reason demarpaint gave. Of the people I know who have had to replace engagement clutches, those are the ones that put their car into gear right away not giving any thought to RPM.


+
Yes, Food for thought. smile ^

I've driven manuals since the '68 Bug as my first car around 1977.
Three clutch jobs I recall since then;

* A 39,000 mile VW Fox I picked up in 1993 that went to about 185,000. I loaned it to a friend of a friend 2 different times (and friends) the last time at about 183,000, the clutch started going (or the driver burned it up ?) coming up from Raton pass in 1999 or so. The first friend / customer returned the car with burned up brakes. I had to use the e-brake to get it home. crazy

* 2003 Suzuki Aero I owned and gave to the kids, then they taught their friends how to drive a stick !! duh (54,000 miles if you can believe it). It was fine afterward and well into the 128,000 mile odo or beyond when it was sold.

* My 2004 G-35 coupe, picked up at 90-some ,000 miles. Clutch was likely weak by then and IMO, due to 2 previous owners. How do you know if 'they knew how to properly drive a stick ? Over 5 plus years, I added about 25,000 to the odo and started to baby the clutch as if was obviously toasting at 109,000. Those things are well known to live to 150,000 - 180,000. miles and beyond.


Last edited by bachman; 03/28/20 03:22 PM.

95 Honda Nighthawk- Rotella T6 syn
17 Golf SW 4MO dsg- Dealer LOF/5-6k *New spec syn -VW/Audi XOM ?
16 Mazda CX9 Tour- Dealer LOF/5-6k Casterol full syn
Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5388084 03/28/20 04:18 PM
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Pew Offline
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I will always wait for the RPMs to settle down from high-idle before I take off with the car. Usually in the focus, it's once my headunit connects via BT to my phone and music starts playing (~20 seconds.) For the evo, it's by the time I finish my cigarette outside the car. Then light driving until I can feel the transmission fluid warm up.

Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5388287 03/28/20 08:52 PM
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CR94 Offline
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With carbureted engines, I put the engine under load as soon as it would run decently---which was almost right away in warm weather.

Prius engine speed doesn't "settle." On a cold start, regardless of ambient temperature, it holds a constant 1280 RPM, until after exactly one minute it suddenly drops to zero if not under load. If you ask for moderate power before the minute is up, the system demands high current from the battery (because it's attempting to let the engine warm up with no load). Therefore, I take off as near as practical right at the end of the minute, other than initial low-speed, low-power moving out of a parking lot.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 110K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: 2010Civic] #5388426 03/29/20 07:09 AM
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Miller88 Offline
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Originally Posted by 2010Civic
With a manual transmission I don't mind as much taking off with the revs up.


I believe that is the reason the pilot bearing failed on my Focus at 70000 miles. That car would race up to 2500-3000 RPM on cold start and stay there for 5-10 minutes on a cold morning. If I was in a hurry, I would just drive. The problem is, the engine would force itself to stay at 3000 RPM. So if I pushed in the clutch, it would race up. Every.Single.Shift. At least I could drive half way to work without touching the gas pedal.

That was also a lot of wear on the synchronizers inside the transmission, but mostly the pilot bearing and throwout bearing. That car was ridiculous with the high idle, but it had to maintain it's ULEV rating and that meant the cat had to be immediately lit off and kept to temperature.

My Forester is a lot better. It'll idle at 2000 for a few minutes, but if it senses the car starts to move, it'll drop the idle down to normal.

Last edited by Miller88; 03/29/20 07:09 AM.

18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep XJ
01 F-350 4x4 5M
Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: Miller88] #5388430 03/29/20 07:11 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by 2010Civic
With a manual transmission I don't mind as much taking off with the revs up.


I believe that is the reason the pilot bearing failed on my Focus at 70000 miles. That car would race up to 2500-3000 RPM on cold start and stay there for 5-10 minutes on a cold morning. If I was in a hurry, I would just drive. The problem is, the engine would force itself to stay at 3000 RPM. So if I pushed in the clutch, it would race up. Every.Single.Shift. At least I could drive half way to work without touching the gas pedal.

That was also a lot of wear on the synchronizers inside the transmission, but mostly the pilot bearing and throwout bearing. That car was ridiculous with the high idle, but it had to maintain it's ULEV rating and that meant the cat had to be immediately lit off and kept to temperature.

My Forester is a lot better. It'll idle at 2000 for a few minutes, but if it senses the car starts to move, it'll drop the idle down to normal.

That isn't doing the clutch disk or pressure plate any good either.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5388612 03/29/20 12:00 PM
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I FINALLY got my wife into the habit of mentally counting to 10 before engaging the transmission on a cold start. Our vehicles are in a basement garage and the temperature rarely falls below 60 degrees F so the engines settle down pretty quickly. I could see her cars front wheels shudder on cold start at high idle when she put her car in reverse on cold start. mad

Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5388664 03/29/20 01:24 PM
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Kibitoshin Offline
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I usually wait around 1-2 minutes where the RPMS start to drop from initial start.
For the Cummins it settles into regular idle after starting just waiting for the air pressure to build up.


Shin Gekiretsu Shin'ou'hou
02 Chevy Silverado C1500 V8 5.3L
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Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5388731 03/29/20 03:00 PM
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TXCarGeek Offline OP
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Well, good to know I'm not the only one. It's generally not an inconvenience to wait because I usually take that long to settle in anyway.

Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: Miller88] #5389084 03/30/20 04:43 AM
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bachman Offline
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Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by 2010Civic
With a manual transmission I don't mind as much taking off with the revs up.


I believe that is the reason the pilot bearing failed on my Focus at 70000 miles. That car would race up to 2500-3000 RPM on cold start and stay there for 5-10 minutes on a cold morning. If I was in a hurry, I would just drive. The problem is, the engine would force itself to stay at 3000 RPM. So if I pushed in the clutch, it would race up. Every.Single.Shift. At least I could drive half way to work without touching the gas pedal.

That was also a lot of wear on the synchronizers inside the transmission, but mostly the pilot bearing and throwout bearing. That car was ridiculous with the high idle, but it had to maintain it's ULEV rating and that meant the cat had to be immediately lit off and kept to temperature.

My Forester is a lot better. It'll idle at 2000 for a few minutes, but if it senses the car starts to move, it'll drop the idle down to normal.


That would suck. I'm surprised anything in the mech interface lasted 70 k miles.
Nobody should feel forced or hurried to drive away with an engine racing at 2500 or more. That was a problem that should have been dropped in Ford's lap (dealership service) if it was always that way or purchased new.
With modern engines or newer cars/trucks etc... I'd consider 1500 to 1700 rpms even for a min or more to be excessive unless some particular design or manual specifies.

Last edited by bachman; 03/30/20 04:45 AM.

95 Honda Nighthawk- Rotella T6 syn
17 Golf SW 4MO dsg- Dealer LOF/5-6k *New spec syn -VW/Audi XOM ?
16 Mazda CX9 Tour- Dealer LOF/5-6k Casterol full syn
Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5389160 03/30/20 07:35 AM
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littleant Offline
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For me not in the summer. But winter temperatures at -20 -30 -40 I always let the jeep warm up until i have full heat.


I can't prevent getting old but I REFUSE to grow up.
2010 Mountaineer 4.0
2002 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0
Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5389684 03/30/20 07:42 PM
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5AcresAndAFool Offline
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I hate our 3.3L Sienna's cold idle, it revs waaay up (1500 to 1800rpm) and holds it there for several minutes, plus it wont shift into high gear until temp reaches a certain point.... Why do this? To fire the cat off quicker, emissions. This seems to be a common strategy for Toyota in that era. No other vehicles that I know of hold a high idle so long when cold than certain Toyotas of that era.

Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: Miller88] #5389751 03/30/20 09:31 PM
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AC1DD Offline
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Originally Posted by Miller88


I believe that is the reason the pilot bearing failed on my Focus at 70000 miles. That car would race up to 2500-3000 RPM on cold start and stay there for 5-10 minutes on a cold morning.


Even if it was frigid that doesn't seem right. Never took it in and opened a case on it with Ford corporate? Sounds like a fault to me.

Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5390093 03/31/20 10:38 AM
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My remote start will reach 4 floors down through the parking garage, so I start it as I begin walking down the stairs, and it's settling to idle as I click my seat belt. I remote start it from inside the house in the morning, and it runs for 2-3 minutes while I get ready to leave. High idle is annoying with an automatic.


2015 Canyon 3.6
2018 Mustang Ecoboost Convertible
2017 Focus ST
Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: TXCarGeek] #5390114 03/31/20 11:25 AM
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Some time spent in a car with a carburetor and manual choke can tell you a whole lot about the necessity for this

Often, with a manual choke, the first 1/3 or so of the pull doesn't do anything with the choke mechanism itself, but instead is just working the fast idle cam.

In warm weather, with the car stone-cold(not run in several hours) I usually start with the choke all the way out(fast idle+enrichment) and after starting the engine will often stall if left on full choke more than a couple of seconds. Usually, the engine will appreciate ~10 seconds of fast idle, but will often settle down to a stable idle if taken off fast in 30 seconds or so.

Cold temperatures can be a different story. I will often need to use full choke a minute or more to keep the engine running, and need the fast idle an additional minute or to keep it from stalling when stopped and the like.


2010 Lincoln MKZ-Mobil 1 5W-30
1970 MG MGB Roadster-Valvoline VR-1 20W-50
1974 Austin Marina GT VR-1 20W-50
Re: Who waits for the RPMs to settle before ...? [Re: bachman] #5390311 03/31/20 04:39 PM
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AC1DD Offline
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Originally Posted by bachman
Originally Posted by Miller88
Originally Posted by 2010Civic
With a manual transmission I don't mind as much taking off with the revs up.


I believe that is the reason the pilot bearing failed on my Focus at 70000 miles. That car would race up to 2500-3000 RPM on cold start and stay there for 5-10 minutes on a cold morning. If I was in a hurry, I would just drive. The problem is, the engine would force itself to stay at 3000 RPM. So if I pushed in the clutch, it would race up. Every.Single.Shift. At least I could drive half way to work without touching the gas pedal.

That was also a lot of wear on the synchronizers inside the transmission, but mostly the pilot bearing and throwout bearing. That car was ridiculous with the high idle, but it had to maintain it's ULEV rating and that meant the cat had to be immediately lit off and kept to temperature.

My Forester is a lot better. It'll idle at 2000 for a few minutes, but if it senses the car starts to move, it'll drop the idle down to normal.


That would suck. I'm surprised anything in the mech interface lasted 70 k miles.
Nobody should feel forced or hurried to drive away with an engine racing at 2500 or more. That was a problem that should have been dropped in Ford's lap (dealership service) if it was always that way or purchased new.
With modern engines or newer cars/trucks etc... I'd consider 1500 to 1700 rpms even for a min or more to be excessive unless some particular design or manual specifies.


Yes, that Focus has a defect or issues with the idle control at cold start. Why he wouldn't complain is beyond understanding.

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