Hub over Rotor advantages?

Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
454
Location
New Mexico
Having the dreaded HOR design, changing the Rotors is a pain. I was wondering why this design was used back in the nineties. The design does appear to secure the Rotor better than the ROH set-up. Any thoughts?

IMG_20200324_143243252_HDR.jpg
 
One advantage that I just found is that uneven or over-torq of the lug nuts may not have the same effect on the rotors, less likely to warp.
 
Organic pads of the day caused less rotor wear, they often lasted the life of the car. We call them a captive rotor.
 
Interesting design. Opposite of my Mercedes cars, where the rotor bolts to the hub, which has the bearing races and gets set for play.where is the bearing in that type of design? Seems like it would be an intermediate design, maybe offering some manufacturing simplicities versus the old school rotor-hub design like my cars have, but older school then the subsequent approaches where the rotor just attaches with a single screw or slides over the lug bolts?
 
Originally Posted by WyrTwister
First time I have seen that . Do not think I would like it ?

You wouldn't...

Remove hub bearing assembly from vehicle and press wheel studs out to remove rotor, which slips on/off the back of the bearing. Nothing like turning a simple job into a much bigger one.
 
Sounds like that generates labor hours for the mechanic .

On the other hand , I rarely have to change / replace rotors / drums . Since I finally convinced my wife to STOP driving as soon as she hears metal to metal .

I am rather intrigued . We purchased out 2015 Chevy Sonic new . It now has 70,000 + miles on it and I have not had to touch the brakes .

I drove a 2008 Silverado HD work truck 1500 a few years ago . At ~ 100,000 miles , I did the front disc brake pads . ( Rotors were fine . )

Pads could have gone another 20,000 - 30,000 miles . I was really surprised .
 
Last new rotors I put on got a thick coat of header paint. Then I removed it where the pads rub and on the center feature of the hub. Used very sticky grease on the center feature.

Rod
 
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
Last new rotors I put on got a thick coat of header paint. Then I removed it where the pads rub and on the center feature of the hub. Used very sticky grease on the center feature.

Rod

When I purchase a new vehicle, I remove the brake rotors and burnish a small amount of anti-seize on the inside of the disc to hub interface. Going on sixteen years and no rust with no problem removing discs.
 
Honda Accord right? I had the special tool from MATCO for those rotors so you didn't have to use a slide hammer. Ended up not being worth it because the jerk manager of the shop I worked at then wouldn't charge the proper labor. He said that since it took me less time he couldn't charge more, even though I had an extra $350 in the tool
mad.gif
 
I have absolutely no idea why Honda designed them like that. I did the rotor over hub conversion on my '92 Accord so I wouldn't have to deal with that nonsense any more. After I finished the conversion, I thought "Now why the heck didn't Honda do it like this in the first place?" I still don't have an answer to that question.
 
That design makes me very angry, I did alot of brake jobs on honda accords and k2500 chevy trucks back in the day with captive rotors. I damaged a few bearings on the accords despite trying not too. Being in rust country didnt help.

The the last independent shop i worked at got an on the car lathe right before I left, this helped greatly on the accords IF the rotors were not too thin.

The chevy dealer I worked at got an on the car lathe just as the Chevy Colorado's came out as they had captive rotors as well and GM seemed the lathe an essential tool.

Captured rotors are a PITA!
 
It wasn't just Honda who did captive rotors, all the Japanese fwd cars had them...it was just how it was done in those days.
 
Yep, that's how they were. Remember on the late '80's and early '90's Ford Laser/Mazda 323 pressing the front hubs apart to repack the wheel bearings every 40,000km - it was part of their service schedule.
 
Having the dreaded HOR design, changing the Rotors is a pain. I was wondering why this design was used back in the nineties. The design does appear to secure the Rotor better than the ROH set-up. Any thoughts?

View attachment 21823
After reading the post and replies, I completely understand why this must be a frustrating design and a pain as far as maintenance goes, to the point of forcing some to convert to ROH. But being a racing driver 1st and foremost, obligates me to ALWAYS commend engineers that design passenger cars with an eye on performance over anything else. So I do have an actual legit reason, at least in the case of the 5th gen Accord, why the Honda engineer in charge of suspension development (ride/handling), went with the HOR and for the very same reason, also went with a front stabilizer/sway/anti-sway/anti-roll bar and I almost forgot, double wishbones all around.

The reason being PERFORMANCE (reminder that Honda had just left Formula 1 at around the time the 5th generation was being designed) I find that people sometimes forget Honda engineers are some of the best with some coming from the motorsports world. So it was for performance and in particular with HOR, it was keeping the UNSPRUNG WEIGHT as low as possible which we know aids not only handling but also ride comfort and quality.

Speaking of the 5th generation Accord, it was decided that, just like the 4th generation on which, 50% of it was carried over, it was over engineered, meaning too expensive, argued that it was just a family sedan/wagon. The double wishbones, and HOR to name a few would be dropped to keep manufacturing prices lower because the beancounters won out over the die hard "racing" engineers. That was the beginning of the end and until only recently, Honda made vanilla, unassuming, uninspiring, but reliable cars and minivans!

So you all had valid points and reasons for wondering why :) because it didn't make much sense. Well NOW, at least in regards to the 5th gen Accord with the totally inconvenient HORs, you know!

I'm new here BTW!
Have a Happy Holidays and a fun and safe New Year's everyone!

V
 
After reading the post and replies, I completely understand why this must be a frustrating design and a pain as far as maintenance goes, to the point of forcing some to convert to ROH. But being a racing driver 1st and foremost, obligates me to ALWAYS commend engineers that design passenger cars with an eye on performance over anything else. So I do have an actual legit reason, at least in the case of the 5th gen Accord, why the Honda engineer in charge of suspension development (ride/handling), went with the HOR and for the very same reason, also went with a front stabilizer/sway/anti-sway/anti-roll bar and I almost forgot, double wishbones all around.

The reason being PERFORMANCE (reminder that Honda had just left Formula 1 at around the time the 5th generation was being designed) I find that people sometimes forget Honda engineers are some of the best with some coming from the motorsports world. So it was for performance and in particular with HOR, it was keeping the UNSPRUNG WEIGHT as low as possible which we know aids not only handling but also ride comfort and quality.

Speaking of the 5th generation Accord, it was decided that, just like the 4th generation on which, 50% of it was carried over, it was over engineered, meaning too expensive, argued that it was just a family sedan/wagon. The double wishbones, and HOR to name a few would be dropped to keep manufacturing prices lower because the beancounters won out over the die hard "racing" engineers. That was the beginning of the end and until only recently, Honda made vanilla, unassuming, uninspiring, but reliable cars and minivans!

So you all had valid points and reasons for wondering why :) because it didn't make much sense. Well NOW, at least in regards to the 5th gen Accord with the totally inconvenient HORs, you know!

I'm new here BTW!
Have a Happy Holidays and a fun and safe New Year's everyone!

V

Welcome to BITOG 🥳
 
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