Awful sound after valve adjustment.

[dunlop0078]

Might be a little outside the scope of this forum but any thoughts would be appreciated. This occurred after a valve adjustment, I don't think that was the cause of the noise in and of itself I think it's either not in time or there is an issue with the timing chain. Sounds awful and I think i have likely done quite a bit of damage. Before staring it I cranked it over several times by hand, it was not hitting the valves it cranked smoothly before recording and still does after I recorded this. I disconnected the injector wires and cranked it with the starter, it sounds fine you do not hear the metallic ticking when its not running and its very consistent so I assume all the cylinders have somewhat even compression. Its Kawisaki Ninja 636 2005, DOHC inline 4 engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH9OWssRotQ&feature=youtu.be

 

[Olas]

check the timing marks line up first, and check the tensioner. make sure all the marks line up.

go back to the valves and check the clearance again, make sure you use cold or hot values depepnding on the engine temp.
while the engine cover is off check for 'witness marks' inside it, maybe not lined up right and the cam is hitting the cover?

you can use a wooden spoon as a stethoscope, put one end against your ear and put the other end against the part of the engine you want to listen to. as you move around you will notice that some areas are louder and some are quieter - keep looking and you will find the area where the noise is coming from.

let us know what you find out

 

[hemitom]

I tend to think from hearing that , you have adjusted some of the valves to tight. ??

 

[ragtoplvr]

maybe adjusted way way too loose with piston at TDC between exhaust and intake rather than on compression stroke on base circle of cam. Common mistake.

Easy to fix

Rod

 

[tcp71]

Since it happened right after adjusting the valves, start there. I suspect the clearances are way loose. Clearance specifications may be in millimeters, not thousandths of an inch. Make sure your gauges are right.

 

[dunlop0078]

Yeah I'm thinking it's the timing, problem is the timing marks face the frame, picture below, ignore the white marks they rubbed off cant use them anymore. The timing marks are on the other side of the camshaft, ridiculous design, I have been using a mirror to see the marks and tried to wrap them around with a silver sharpie.

These are shim under bucket type valves. The cams have to be removed to change the shims, which is why im thinking I screwed up the timing. All of the exhaust valves were slightly out of spec too tight, so I replaced the stock shims with slightly smaller ones based on how far they were out, there is a chart in the service manual that shows you which shim size to use. Everything was good according to my feeler guage. I used a metric feeler gauge and followed the metric instructions. So I don't think I screwed that up, all I did was replace exhaust shims with slightly smaller ones like .05 of a millimeter.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

wow .o5mm is a fair amount but might be typical for a well used engine due to valve tuliping.

Was the ex. looser than 0.30mm?

 

[Trav]

You need to go back through this whole job, that cam chain looks loose, it sounds like a possible loose cam chain.
Did you get the correct shims in the right buckets and all back where they were?

 

[Gasbuggy]

Man, that looks like too much slack in the chain! Maybe someone here knows the exact right answer but this really looks like a question for a specific forum.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Sounds like an overly tight cam chain tensioner to me.

 

[dunlop0078]

The photo with slack in the chain is with the tensioner removed. I touched the chain and went through a couple revolutions by hand before I put the valve cover on, no slack. If anything it's too tight like said above.

 

[WobblyElvis]

The tensioner may have an internal ratchet mechanism that does not let the plunger retract. if you raised the end of the camshaft without the sprocket it would pivot the sprocket end down and the tensioner may have "clicked" to the next notch. Lowering the shaft into position and bolting the caps down may be left the cam chain in an over tight position. If the tensioner is easy to get to, that's where I'd look.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted by Trav
You need to go back through this whole job, that cam chain looks loose, it sounds like a possible loose cam chain.
Did you get the correct shims in the right buckets and all back where they were?

Do what Trav suggests. Trav is an industry professional.

 

[dunlop0078]

Yeah im going to rip everything apart again and just do it all over. I will double check my measurements and make sure the buckets are seated properly. I already have the valve cover off and the chain isn't loose. Its a ratcheting tensioner, you slide the tensioner in, screw in the mounting bolts, then you put in this spring which has a metal rod in the middle, then a bolt goes over that and as you screw the bolt in it moves the tensioner out to meet the chain.

I'm stuck on thinking it's timing and the noise is my valves grazing the top of the pistons, I think my brain wants to jump to the worst conclusion. But I did turn it over at least ten times by hand before starting it, no binding.

 

[Trav]

If you turned it over by hand and nothing was hitting or binding the engine should be fine. Just go over it again I'm sure you will find what is out of adjustment.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by Trav
You need to go back through this whole job, that cam chain looks loose, it sounds like a possible loose cam chain.
Did you get the correct shims in the right buckets and all back where they were?

Do what Trav suggests. Trav is an industry professional.


I would listen to whomever has done this specific or very similar job.

Be they Shadetree OR professional.

They all have pitfalls and little tricks up their sleeves.

I would check cam timing, then look at the TCT..

And if time, triple check the valve lash.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Only three fasteners are involved in removing and resetting the cam chain tensioner. I would go the easy route first.

 

[02SE]

There should be a spec for the specific number of pins in the camchain between the cams, when the engine is at TDC and all timing marks are in the correct position. Any slack should be along the length of the camchain where the tensioner applies pressure through a guide. Of course there is a service limit for the camchain, the guides, and tensioner too. So the service limit for each needs to be in spec.

From the sound I suspect you have slack in the camchain either where it shouldn't be because of a timing/ installation error, or because the tensioner is not set properly, or is not working. Unless the bike is very high miles or oil changes have been neglected, the camchain, guides and tensioner are probably still within service limits.

Some bikes have had issues with tensioners. So make sure it's working and set properly.

 

[dunlop0078]

I'm pretty sure the tensioner is set properly, I can hear it clicking out as I install it. It does have somewhat high mileage 32,000. According to the manual there should be 28pins between the marks. I had a lot of trouble trying to keep the chain on the cam as I was tightening up the cam holder plate, it wanted to pull the chain up off of the intake can. How do you get the slack out of the exhaust side? Tensioner is on intake side. The manual mentions getting slack out of the exhaust side it says to just pull up on the side of the chain but I'm not sure if that worked for me. The chain absolutely did not want to stay put as I was tightening up the cam holder thing.

 

[R1jake]

I recommend taking this to the 13x WERA forum. You will get help from those who know this engine very well. This is something I'll be going through on my R1 someday as well.