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Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: Chase1] #5387036 03/27/20 01:18 PM
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Gokhan Offline
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Originally Posted by Chase1
That flies in the face of Gokhan's misleading statement of opinion on the "superiority" of Mobil1 regarding oxidation performance.

It's not a misleading statement. It's an internal document comparing Mobil 1 5W-30, Pennzoil Platinum without PurePlus 5W-30, and Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus 5W-30 in Sequence IIIE. Both Pennzoil Platinums, regardless of PurePlus (GTL), took 110 hours to oxidize (defined by a 100% increase in viscosity) in the Sequence IIIE test. Mobil 1 took 190 hours to oxidize -- 80 hours longer.

However, it's an internal document, and I am not allowed to share it. I cannot confirm its validity either, as the test wasn't done by an independent company. It's what it it is. Perhaps people on BITOG who used both Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum in extended OCIs can give us some insight. Moreover, I agree with you that both Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum are premium oils.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: buster] #5387069 03/27/20 02:14 PM
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For a few years now, Ultra Platinum has been advertised better pistons cleaning power (up-to 65% better) (Platinum 50% better) than any leading gasoline-only synthetic oils out there. No other oil bottler has been successful in getting that advertising wording removed. That's because truth-be-told and why I currently use it.

I don't need the longest lasting oil.... not for 4-6K OCIs. I don't need the most slippery oil (Ravenol) either. Not at $12 per quart. It's low vicosity 30w and pumps very well in cold weather.

When the new certs come out in a couple months, everyone here will re-examine all the oil jug specs. I may change-then to something else.


2019 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 / OEM 35504 Filter
2020 Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 MPI - a 50-50 blend of Pennzoil Platinum HM & Pennzoil Gold 5w30 // AC Delco PF1127 Ecore




Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: buster] #5387073 03/27/20 02:19 PM
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buster Offline OP
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Both Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum are great oils. Can't go wrong with either.

Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: buster] #5387082 03/27/20 02:24 PM
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wemay Online Happy
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Originally Posted by buster
Sticking with 0w20:

Readily available:
1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10%
2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA)
3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6%


Boutique:
Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%


Our Santa Fe Sport 2.0T has seen more Valvoline Synpower than anything else. Same for most of my previous vehicles. I wouldn't know what constitutes it being better but i have never had an issue. The VW won't as of right now because i only know of a few easily accessible VW508.00 motor oils and Valvoline isn't one.


19 VW Passat Wolfsburg TSI: Castrol Edge Pro LL IV Fe 0W20 + VW oil filter
13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Shell Rotella Gas Truck 5W30 + H/K oil filter
Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: buster] #5387098 03/27/20 02:37 PM
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buster Offline OP
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Before I got rid of my 2015 3, I wish I would have taken a look at the intake valves. The car only had Mobil 1 EP 0w20 during the 63k miles.

Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: wemay] #5387122 03/27/20 03:10 PM
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RazorsEdge Offline
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Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by buster
Sticking with 0w20:

Readily available:
1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10%
2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA)
3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6%


Boutique:
Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%


Our Santa Fe Sport 2.0T has seen more Valvoline Synpower than anything else. Same for most of my previous vehicles. I wouldn't know what constitutes it being better but i have never had an issue. The VW won't as of right now because i only know of a few easily accessible VW508.00 motor oils and Valvoline isn't one.


As long as you or anyone else can say they had no issues with an oil choice, then that's all that matters. Trying to chase the "ultimate" oil is a waste of time when IMO life is too short to be worrying about something so small.


Schaeffer Oil 👍😎
Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: Gokhan] #5387128 03/27/20 03:16 PM
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Chase1 Offline
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Well sir, without validation, confirmation, and substantiation, it would legally be considered "hearsay" which is inadmissible as proof. It's your word, and your word only. And while you have provided much information and many thought provoking topics, making a statement such as you have toward any "superiority" of a product can bias the conversation. It also runs against the provision of papers, tests, research, etc you have provided to substantiate your position in past threads. In this case....it is....but....it isn't... is more likely the reality.

In any case, your input, knowledge, and ideas contribute substantially to the interest of many on his site. Let's just keep the comments about "superiority"
to those that can be proven and substantiated, and not to those which can't.

Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: buster] #5387129 03/27/20 03:17 PM
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IndyFan Offline
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Originally Posted by buster
Sticking with 0w20:

Readily available:
1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10%
2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA)
3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6%


Boutique:
Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%


I agree. I've been running M1 EP for 10k OCI's in our Ecoboost. It has been doing just fine. I think it is outstanding oil.


18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 31k
15 Ford Transit 129k, Reman 3.5 @85k
17 Jeep Renegade 2.4 29k
08 Jeep Wrangler 3.8 141k
04 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7 111k
99 Mercedes E430 Sport 90k
Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: buster] #5387257 03/27/20 06:56 PM
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edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by buster
I'm not sure why some folks are pushing this post in an unnecessary direction. Let's stay on topic here. This is about the best choice for GDI engines knowing what we know NOW.

With that said, based on the Afton Study Gokhan shared we know the following:

1. Base oil quality
2. Sulfated Ash level
3. Noack

When looking for an oil that will only help reduce intake valve deposits you want to consider those 3 things, with the first 2 being of most importance.

I've based my oil decision on those 3 things and have found that:

Mobil 1 AP/EP, Vavoline and Driven are the top 3. See my first post. Driven doesn't officially meet any API specs but is arguably the best of the bunch.

I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about all this.


*Dwight, the only thing about the Castrol oil I don't like is the SA level of 1.0. Mobil 1 is .8.

Keep in mind there are always tradeoffs with formulations. This is strictly focused on GDI ENGINES.

Gokhan is pushing it to irrelevant direction. Noack is valuable parameter, and actually I like to pay attention to that a lot. But what matters is final product. That is it. I mentioned Euro oils because they have approval process unlike many other manufacturers. It is not all about Noack (and it is much more complex than just base stocks as many ils with better base stocks have higehr Noack value than those with what suppose to be lower quality base stock. Mobil1 ESP Formula 5W30 which is discontinued is prime example). SAPS issue is known among Euro engines for a long time, and DI engines in VW vehicles had that issue like 15 years ago. There are numerous studies about how much oil helps with CBU and Lubrizol did that loooooooong time ago where they determined that difference between VW 504.00/507.00 oil and VW502.00 oil can be 167% more deposits using VW502.00. Also, PCV system is extremely relevant when one talks about CBU.
But ultimately, what matters for customer is what kind of approval process oil went through. This subject is discussed in Euro section for more than 10 years, and if you really want detailed information, go there, you will have more than enough.
If you want best oils, you have to go Euro oil route, but then you will have to pay often more.


I guess I'm not following you. Where is the overlap here?

You are talking about GDI engines. Issues you are talking about European manufacturers had 15 years ago. Let's put on a side why some Asian and American vehicles have issues that VW had 15 years ago (or why they didn't learn on problems other had).
My point is, if you are looking "best" oil, from consumer perspective, look for oil that has stringent approval process.
Other gibberish mentioned here is just that. Not useful for consumer and definiately not possible to dissect completely on a forum.


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40+ MANN filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OE filter).
Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: wemay] #5387263 03/27/20 06:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 9,585
edyvw Offline
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Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by buster
Sticking with 0w20:

Readily available:
1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10%
2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA)
3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6%


Boutique:
Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%


Our Santa Fe Sport 2.0T has seen more Valvoline Synpower than anything else. Same for most of my previous vehicles. I wouldn't know what constitutes it being better but i have never had an issue. The VW won't as of right now because i only know of a few easily accessible VW508.00 motor oils and Valvoline isn't one.

And Noack is just ONE of variables. To base decision just on that one variable is ridiculous at best. That is why there is approval process so that customer does not have tow orry, or in Hyundai's case that is called: lottery.


11' BMW 328i xDrive 6MT (Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40+ MANN filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W30+OE filter)
15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 5W30 EP+OE filter).
Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: Gokhan] #5393126 04/03/20 10:44 PM
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DallasCMT Offline
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.

Been searching for hours for this kind of advice. Dealer offers free oil changes, but it's conventional oil for my GDI engine. Thank you.

Last edited by DallasCMT; 04/03/20 10:55 PM.
Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: DallasCMT] #5393161 04/04/20 01:53 AM
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Gokhan Offline
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Originally Posted by DallasCMT
Originally Posted by Gokhan
I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.
Been searching for hours for this kind of advice. Dealer offers free oil changes, but it's conventional oil for my GDI engine. Thank you.

You're welcome. Genesis says if A5/B5 (synthetic) 5W-30 is not available in your country, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 5W-30 or above is OK. Someone is taking advantage of that and going cheapo.

I would run a dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 5W-30 in this engine. It takes 7.29 qt. You could probably grab two jugs of M1 EP 5W-30 from Walmart and ask the dealer to use them and return the half-full jug to you.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: Gokhan] #5394787 04/05/20 05:57 PM
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DallasCMT Offline
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Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by DallasCMT
Originally Posted by Gokhan
I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.
Been searching for hours for this kind of advice. Dealer offers free oil changes, but it's conventional oil for my GDI engine. Thank you.

You're welcome. Genesis says if A5/B5 (synthetic) 5W-30 is not available in your country, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 5W-30 or above is OK. Someone is taking advantage of that and going cheapo.

I would run a dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 5W-30 in this engine. It takes 7.29 qt. You could probably grab two jugs of M1 EP 5W-30 from Walmart and ask the dealer to use them and return the half-full jug to you.

I'll give it a try, just hope they're honest about it (and don't put the cheap stuff in my car while changing their own oil with my M1 EP). I've changed my own oil all my life (mostly use Pennzoil) but this new car comes with three years of free maintenance. The manual calls for ACEA A5 but they won't provide it. I raised the issue to Genesis corporate and they said it was up to the dealer, but dealer said corporate only reimburses them for conventional oil. ?? And as you probably know, Genesis "recommends" Quaker State, which the dealer uses (so they say) and their synthetic doesn't meet ACEA A5. It's a dumb loop if you ask me. Maybe I'll just do it myself.

But anyway, I appreciate the advice. I'm using top-tier fuel and want to use the best oil reasonably possible for the 8-10 years I plan to own the car.

Re: My Top (3) GDI Oils [Re: DallasCMT] #5394857 04/05/20 07:11 PM
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Gokhan Offline
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Originally Posted by DallasCMT
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by DallasCMT
Originally Posted by Gokhan
I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.
Been searching for hours for this kind of advice. Dealer offers free oil changes, but it's conventional oil for my GDI engine. Thank you.
You're welcome. Genesis says if A5/B5 (synthetic) 5W-30 is not available in your country, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 5W-30 or above is OK. Someone is taking advantage of that and going cheapo.

I would run a dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 5W-30 in this engine. It takes 7.29 qt. You could probably grab two jugs of M1 EP 5W-30 from Walmart and ask the dealer to use them and return the half-full jug to you.
I'll give it a try, just hope they're honest about it (and don't put the cheap stuff in my car while changing their own oil with my M1 EP). I've changed my own oil all my life (mostly use Pennzoil) but this new car comes with three years of free maintenance. The manual calls for ACEA A5 but they won't provide it. I raised the issue to Genesis corporate and they said it was up to the dealer, but dealer said corporate only reimburses them for conventional oil. ?? And as you probably know, Genesis "recommends" Quaker State, which the dealer uses (so they say) and their synthetic doesn't meet ACEA A5. It's a dumb loop if you ask me. Maybe I'll just do it myself.

But anyway, I appreciate the advice. I'm using top-tier fuel and want to use the best oil reasonably possible for the 8-10 years I plan to own the car.

Hyundai/Genesis/Kia oil recommendations are a mess.

There is really no such thing as a separate ACEA A5 category anymore. ACEA A5 (gasoline) merged with ACEA B5 (light diesel) in 2004.

ACEA 2002
ACEA 2004


I am sure QSUD satisfies ACEA A5/B5, but since this oil is only marketed in the US, they wouldn't bother to certify it for ACEA.

Since the owner's manual also allows conventional oil in the footnote, there is not much you can do other than to bring your own oil with you.


2020 Toyota Prius Prime XLE plug-in hybrid, 2ZR-FXE engine, ~ 65 mpg on regular gasoline, ~ 5,000 mi
TGMO 0W-16 SN/RC Japan
OEM spin-on oil filter Japan
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