My Top (3) GDI Oils

[53' Stude]

Originally Posted by bbhero
I do agree with you on the base oil aspect to a decent degree...


Gokhan I believe you are right about that to a large point.

The specs are what they are.... And API SN plus is not on the same field as much tougher specs like Porsche c30 or MB 229.5.


I will respectfully agree with Gokhan AND you and edyww

Cheers captain

 

[bbhero]

Amen 53Strude...

Very well stated...

And I actually agree with Gokhan (to a good degree) and edyvw ( to a good degree too) too...

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Gokhan: Thank You for the information sir

What do you think of Valvoline Advanced synthetic?

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is a great oil, which has very low VII content. buster and I have been looking at that. The only issue with it is that its 0.97% SA content is on the high side, which is a downside for the GDI/TGDI IVD issue.

Chances are that most oils have been reformulated and are currently waiting in the warehouses to be distributed on May 1, 2020 for the API SP transition.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Gokhan: Thank You for the information sir

What do you think of Valvoline Advanced synthetic?

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is a great oil, which has very low VII content. buster and I have been looking at that. The only issue with it is that its 0.97% SA content is on the high side, which is a downside for the GDI/TGDI IVD issue.

Chances are that most oils have been reformulated and are currently waiting in the warehouses to be distributed on May 1, 2020 for the API SP transition.



You see Gokhan...

What you have stated here about Valvoline advanced full synthetic makes sense to me... A correlation between SA being a bit ^ and GDI and TGDI and IVD issue...

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Gokhan: Thank You for the information sir

What do you think of Valvoline Advanced synthetic?

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is a great oil, which has very low VII content. buster and I have been looking at that. The only issue with it is that its 0.97% SA content is on the high side, which is a downside for the GDI/TGDI IVD issue.

Chances are that most oils have been reformulated and are currently waiting in the warehouses to be distributed on May 1, 2020 for the API SP transition.

 

[PimTac]

My thoughts are that the oils coming out of the plants now are likely the new SP oils. We've seen a few changes recently in the makeup of some oils.

They justice cannot put the SP label on the bottles until May 1.

 

[bbhero]

I'd be willing to bet you are correct in that ^^^^^^^^^

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by PimTac
My thoughts are that the oils coming out of the plants now are likely the new SP oils. We've seen a few changes recently in the makeup of some oils.

They justice cannot put the SP label on the bottles until May 1.

With ExxonMobil oils, that's very easy to tell because there is a revision number (RN number) on the date stamp that shows you what the formulation is. If the revision number is different, the formulation is different; otherwise, it's the same.

 

[GMBoy]

So do you guys think I am not going the best route in using Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W/30 in my 2008 CTS with the 3.6DI based on Noack? I've used Mobil 1 since new, moving to Mobil 1 EP around the 40k mark and High Mileage somewhere around 80k miles and have used it since....current miles are 168k. No issues.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by GMBoy
So do you guys think I am not going the best route in using Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W/30 in my 2008 CTS with the 3.6DI based on Noack? I've used Mobil 1 since new, moving to Mobil 1 EP around the 40k mark and High Mileage somewhere around 80k miles and have used it since....current miles are 168k. No issues.


I wouldn't change anything at that mileage.

 

[CT8]

My latest top Turbo GDI oil is the Rotella gas truck I purchased at close out at Autozone. seems to be a great oil.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

My 5w30s in mid-priced SN Plus (-$7 qt).... no particular order

Mobil-1 AP
Pennzoil Ultra Platinum
Valvoline Modern Engine
Valvoline Advanced
Pennzoil Platinum

 

[DirectRejection]

M1 EP 0W20
BMW 0W20 Twin Power LL-17FE


Ravenol EFE 0W16

 

[kstanf150]

Originally Posted by CT8
My latest top Turbo GDI oil is the Rotella gas truck I purchased at close out at Autozone. seems to be a great oil.


Running the same oil for my 2.0L Ecoboost

 

[Whammo]

Would you rather run a conventional at 2k intervals or a synthetic at 5k intervals in a GDI?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by buster
Sticking with 0w20:

Readily available:
1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10%
2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA)
3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6%


Boutique:
Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%
If you are going to talk about top oils, you have to venture into European approved oils. ILSAC GF-5 oils or API SN are not in the same category.

Let's avoid blanket statements here, which don't help anyone. Sure, if we compare the European oils, which are practically all Group III or higher, to the conventional Group II/II+ ILSAC/API oils, it's apples vs. oranges, for the same reason it's apples vs. oranges to compare a conventional ILSAC/API oil to a synthetic ILSAC/API oil.

However, in the US there is at least one spec that requires synthetic oil -- GM dexos.

At the end it all boils down to the base-oil quality, which is loosely related to the Noack, loosely because you can only relate it to the base-oil quality if the cold viscosity (CCS) is the same for the comparison oils, which is roughly the case when comparing in the same SAE xW range but not otherwise.

This the summary of the relative quality of various specs. However, keep in mind that it's not only about the oil quality but also the application requirements, such as the HTHS, LSPI protection, IVD reduction, etc.

Noack specs (the lower the Noack, the stricter the oil spec)

MB 229.5, 229.51: 10%
Generic ACEA C4 (true low-SAPS (SA ⤠0.5%)): 11%
RN 0720: 11%
VW 504.00, 507.00: 11%
MB 229.31: 12%
RN 0710: 12%
GM dexos1 Gen 3: 12.5%
GM dexos1 Gen 2, GM dexos2: 13%
All other European OEM: 13%
All other generic ACEA: 13%
Generic ILSAC/API: 15%

VW 504.00 is the only spec that tests for the IVD. However, it's a thick oil (HTHS ⥠3.5 cP) and therefore not for better fuel economy.

Generic ILSAC/API is the only spec that allows conventional Group II/II+ oil.

That is the most ridiculous statement.
VW, BMW< MB etc. have various other specific emphasis not only Noack. BMW LL specs. are very stringent when it comes to oxidation, while MB is focused on Noack and deposits. All these specs. have much higher emphasis on wear than anything ILSAC or API. Also, European 0W20 oils have wear test on par with oils with HTHS 3.5 and higher.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by edyvw
That is the most ridiculous statement.
VW, BMW< MB etc. have various other specific emphasis not only Noack. BMW LL specs. are very stringent when it comes to oxidation, while MB is focused on Noack and deposits. All these specs. have much higher emphasis on wear than anything ILSAC or API. Also, European 0W20 oils have wear test on par with oils with HTHS 3.5 and higher.

If you don't understand the point made, it sounds ridiculous.

I didn't rate the entire specs. I rated the Noack, and that was for an important reason. Of course, there are a lot of tests in each spec. However, you don't understand the function the Noack plays through the base-oil quality. The retired oil blender SonofJoe once said here that the Noack is the single most important property when blending oil to achieve a desired performance level. Oil oxidation, oil life, and deposit forming are all related to base-oil quality, which is in turn related to the Noack. When you improve the Noack for a given cold SAE range (a given CCS value), you improve all these things. There is only so much you can do with the additive package as there is no magic ingredient and they already use the state-of-the-art technology. The rest of the improvement comes through the base-oil quality, which is dictated by the Noack spec (for a given CCS).

You don't understand wear either. HTHS is hardly related to wear as long as it is above a minimum for a given bearing clearance. What affects wear is the base-oil viscosity. You're right that 0W-20 (ACEA C5 and C6) wear standards are the same as for ACEA C3 (HTHS ⥠3.5 cP). However, this is the same thing for ILSAC/API -- wear standards are the same for all SAE viscosity grades.

Regarding the MB specs, you're wrong. MB is probably the most strict Euro oil spec, with countless oxidation and wear tests. MB specs have far more tests than the BMW LL specs. See the Afton Specification Handbook -- September 2019 Edition.

 

[Gokhan]

While it should be taken with a grain of salt, the Lubrizol relative-performance comparison tool provides some insight.

Lubrizol relative-performance comparison tool -- PCMO

I overlooked to include the Noack values for the newer MB specs: MB 229.5, 229.51, 229.52, 229.6, and 229.61 have 10% Noack. MB 226.51 and 229.71 have 11% Noack. MB 226.5 and 229.31 have 12% Noack. MB 229.3 has 13% Noack.

You can use the Lubrizol relative-performance comparison tool to see that the oxidation performance as well as deposits performance are clearly correlated with the Noack across the MB specs, as well as when you compare the MB specs to the BMW specs with 13% Noack. This is because the Noack is correlated with the base-oil quality, and oxidation and deposits are correlated with the base-oil quality.

MB 229.71 -- the only 0W-20 and 5W-20 MB grade -- has 11% Noack but the best performance of all MB specs, better than the MB specs with 10% Noack. This is because it's effectively 9% Noack when compared to other specs in terms of the base-oil quality, as the Noack increases for a given base-oil quality when the base oil gets thinner. I had already explained that you need to compare the Noack values for the same base-oil viscosity (in terms of the CCS performance); otherwise, you need to account for the thinner or thicker base oil, which results in higher or lower Noack, respectively, for the same base-oil quality.

Moral of the story: The Noack volatility for a given SAE xW cold range/base-oil viscosity is the primary performance indicator, as it defines how synthetic an oil is. The main difference between the Euro oils and the ILSAC oils is the minimum requirements for the base-oil quality. Some brand-name ILSAC oils sold in the US have excellent base-oil quality and they are not inferior to oils with Euro specs, if not superior. As an example I wouldn't hesitate to use the fully PAO-and-AN-based Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 or Mobil 1 AP 0W-20, in fact even the half-PAO-based M1 AFE 0W-20, in an engine that specs MB 229.71 or some other Euro 0W-20 OEM spec, which typically utilize inferior Group III+ base oils, as long as there is no warranty concern. Likewise a high-quality GM dexos1 oil is not inferior to a Euro oil in the HTHS ~ 3.0 cP range, and a high-quality GM dexos2 oil is not inferior to top Euro standards such as Porsche C30 or VW 504.00 -- in fact these oils usually have all these specs simultaneously.

 

[buster]

Gokhan, thanks for the great information you share with the forum.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Stay to the RIGHT Everyone
When Buster started this thread, I do not believe he had any intention of discussing light diesel oils / certs. I believe Buster only intended this thread, to be a discussion on gasoline-only oils inside GDI / TGDI engines.

Hence..... we are inside the BITOG Folder titled.... Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Vehicles .
Example: When we walk down the oil aisle at Walmart, diesel oils are on the left and gas oils are on the right. I think Buster wants to stay on the right-side of the Walmart aisle, even avoiding the left side where some diesel oils can be used in conjunction with gas engines.