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Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: EngineeringGeek] #5384274 03/24/20 06:27 AM
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There's also oil seeping past turbo shaft seals. I found that on Ford EcoBoost, there's more oil coming from the turbos than the PCV.

Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: StevieC] #5384292 03/24/20 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Not to mention the oil nerds here are the only ones that stress about Noack and other oil specs in fear of D.I., yet the world gets by just fine on bulk oil changes with far less superior oils and with intervals pushed past where it should be. Where are the massive engine failures and OEM's retreating from D.I. technology?

European engines have been using D.I. for years and continue to do so and yes we hear the odd engine having issues but it's not all of them and not all D.I. engine models and they are doing extended drain intervals. :shrug:



We hear the “odd” engine having issues? You ever go to a BMW forum? How about Audi? Know anyone that owns one of these cars? Ever worked on one? It was not odd, it was pretty “normal”.

And it’s not “all of them”? Well that’s pretty reassuring. 5 million units sold and not all of them had carbon buildup on their valves and had to have it walnut shelled away.

I mean, if you’re going to write stuff like this, you can’t throw around terms like “all”, “odd”, “where are all the MASSIVE engine failures”. And provide zero evidence to the contrary.

No one is saying these issues make it so you have to throw your car away, but they do happen, and they are happening. Take any intake manifold off any DI engine right now. Right now. And you will find carbon buildup on those valves, not seen on a typical port injected vehicle. The car still runs. Some get check engine lights, some don’t. Some have a drop in performance and random misfires. Some have a loss of fuel economy. Rough idle. These aren’t MASSIVE engine failures, but they are problems.

So if there are oils out there that can prevent this from happening - and it appears as if there is - why stuff conventional whatever in there and just downplay the whole subject?


2018 Chevy Silverado 5.3
2007 Lexus LS460 (deceased)
2008 Honda CRV
(Whatever synthetic oil is on sale or rebate)
Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: EngineeringGeek] #5384299 03/24/20 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by EngineeringGeek
Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
One way to clean the backside of the intake valves is to use carb and intake cleaner and spray it down into the intake while someone holds the throttle at 4k RPM, and spray the entire can. Then change the engine oil. That will also clean the intake manifold. I also clean the MAF sensor every oil change with MAF sensor cleaner

I've seen zero independent proof any spray works. If you've ever seen and felt carbon build up on a D.I. intake valve it might as well be black concrete. So, no surprise, sprays, Seafoam, etc. don't seem to do much to magically soften and dissolve rock hard baked on carbon build up. There's a reason manufactures usually only recommend mechanical cleaning methods such as walnut shell blasting. Sprays don't work and there are plenty of independent tests that show they don't work.


Agreed. They do next to nothing to remove carbon deposits on a valve. Carbon is one the hardest substances on earth, you can’t spray a cleaner on to it and expect it to do anything. I’ve taken valves out of engines that were covered in carbon and unloaded whole cans of CRC Valve Cleaner on to them, then let them soak, then heated them with a torch and then sprayed them again. Nothing. It does NOTHING.

The only way any of these products would work is if they are constantly sprayed directly onto the valves the entire time the engine is operating...and wouldn’t you know! That’s what port injection was!

Now if you need these things cleaned...remove the manifold and blast walnut shells. Vacuum. Extend a wire brush from your cordless drill and spray those cleaners in there for one more go around. Done. Repeat every 60,000 miles.


2018 Chevy Silverado 5.3
2007 Lexus LS460 (deceased)
2008 Honda CRV
(Whatever synthetic oil is on sale or rebate)
Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: EngineeringGeek] #5384342 03/24/20 08:17 AM
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The detergent in gasoline forms a barrier preventing the carbon from adhering to the valves, it would not clean off hard deposits. As long as there is crankcase ventilation going to the intake, a path needs to be available for the fuel to deposit the detergent on the intake valves.

Last edited by Bryanccfshr; 03/24/20 08:17 AM.

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Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: Ignatius] #5384349 03/24/20 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ignatius
I consider Valvoline Advanced Synthetic to be among the best at preventing carbon buildup.

I consider Valvoline Modern Engine, if their marketing claims are to be believed, an oil that will potentially clean up carbon deposits.


I believe that VME could do a better job at preventing carbon buildup in a DI engine....BUT.... I would have a hard time believing that it could clean up carbon deposits that are already present.
I picked up about 15 qts. of VME 0w20 during the AZ 'Clearance' last December thinking I'd use it in my brother's new Accord 1.5T.....I left the 5w20 on the shelf and now wish I bought it for my 2014 Focus which has DI....

Is it still the conventional wisdom that an occasional blast to near redline can help with carbon buildup on valves?.....I ask because the posts mentioning how hard carbon is make me wonder.


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: pbm] #5384355 03/24/20 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I consider Valvoline Advanced Synthetic to be among the best at preventing carbon buildup.

I consider Valvoline Modern Engine, if their marketing claims are to be believed, an oil that will potentially clean up carbon deposits.


I believe that VME could do a better job at preventing carbon buildup in a DI engine....BUT.... I would have a hard time believing that it could clean up carbon deposits that are already present.
I picked up about 15 qts. of VME 0w20 during the AZ 'Clearance' last December thinking I'd use it in my brother's new Accord 1.5T.....I left the 5w20 on the shelf and now wish I bought it for my 2014 Focus which has DI....

Is it still the conventional wisdom that an occasional blast to near redline can help with carbon buildup on valves?.....I ask because the posts mentioning how hard carbon is make me wonder.


I agree.

Well the Afton study showed high load increased IVD's. shrug


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: pbm] #5384365 03/24/20 08:45 AM
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Triple_Se7en Online Content
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Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I consider Valvoline Advanced Synthetic to be among the best at preventing carbon buildup.

I consider Valvoline Modern Engine, if their marketing claims are to be believed, an oil that will potentially clean up carbon deposits.


I believe that VME could do a better job at preventing carbon buildup in a DI engine....BUT.... I would have a hard time believing that it could clean up carbon deposits that are already present.
I picked up about 15 qts. of VME 0w20 during the AZ 'Clearance' last December thinking I'd use it in my brother's new Accord 1.5T.....I left the 5w20 on the shelf and now wish I bought it for my 2014 Focus which has DI....

Is it still the conventional wisdom that an occasional blast to near redline can help with carbon buildup on valves?.....I ask because the posts mentioning how hard carbon is make me wonder.

Isn't VME considered a one-time use product? Someone at BITOG recently mentioned only using it once every 50-100K?
I wonder if precautions exist on the wording label?




2019 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 / OEM 35504 Filter
2020 Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 MPI - a 50-50 blend of Pennzoil Platinum HM & Pennzoil Gold 5w30 // AC Delco PF1127 Ecore




Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5384368 03/24/20 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I consider Valvoline Advanced Synthetic to be among the best at preventing carbon buildup.

I consider Valvoline Modern Engine, if their marketing claims are to be believed, an oil that will potentially clean up carbon deposits.


I believe that VME could do a better job at preventing carbon buildup in a DI engine....BUT.... I would have a hard time believing that it could clean up carbon deposits that are already present.
I picked up about 15 qts. of VME 0w20 during the AZ 'Clearance' last December thinking I'd use it in my brother's new Accord 1.5T.....I left the 5w20 on the shelf and now wish I bought it for my 2014 Focus which has DI....

Is it still the conventional wisdom that an occasional blast to near redline can help with carbon buildup on valves?.....I ask because the posts mentioning how hard carbon is make me wonder.

Isn't VME considered a one-time use product? Someone at BITOG recently mentioned only using it once every 50-100K?




huh? Valvoline Modern Engine is a dexos approved synthetic oil that you can use from beginning to end. You're thinking of Valvoline Premium Blue Restore. Entirely different product.


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: buster] #5384371 03/24/20 08:50 AM
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Yep - I mixed-up the abbreviations.......thanks.
Then does Blue Restore fit this carbon-cleaning conversation -as a cleaner and not as a prevent-product?

Last edited by Triple_Se7en; 03/24/20 08:52 AM.

2019 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 / OEM 35504 Filter
2020 Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 MPI - a 50-50 blend of Pennzoil Platinum HM & Pennzoil Gold 5w30 // AC Delco PF1127 Ecore




Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: EngineeringGeek] #5384381 03/24/20 09:08 AM
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No problem.

Blue Restore is more for cleaning the rings and other areas, although it may help clean IVD? Good question. I don' t think it would. The idea behind keeping IVD's at bay, which can only be mitigated to a minimal extent, is to use an oil with a lower SA level that has good base oil quality and as little VII's as possible.


2020 - Mazda CX-30 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
2019 - Subaru Impreza - Dealer Oil
Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: buster] #5384413 03/24/20 09:45 AM
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For years here we have been debating expensive oils against inexpensive oils. Now we are beginning t see why the $29-$35 oil is really better for the GDI / TGDI vehicle lifetime owner, than purchasing the $14-20 oil.

But if I were a leaser, or one that sells the vehicle at 100K, I'd buy the cheaper brands too.


2019 Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI - Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 / OEM 35504 Filter
2020 Kia Soul X-Line 2.0 MPI - a 50-50 blend of Pennzoil Platinum HM & Pennzoil Gold 5w30 // AC Delco PF1127 Ecore




Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: EngineeringGeek] #5384470 03/24/20 10:46 AM
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*Hoping using CRC IVC every 12K miles will help with carbon not building up as fast ?


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'10 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 5W30 (50%) / 5W20 (50%) QSUD / Fram Ultra #9688
'07 Kia Sedona 3.8L 5W30 Castrol EP / Fram Ultra #9999
Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: EngineeringGeek] #5384478 03/24/20 10:51 AM
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brake cleaner or carb cleaner will do just as good, probably for cheaper wink

Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: pbm] #5384501 03/24/20 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by pbm
Is it still the conventional wisdom that an occasional blast to near redline can help with carbon buildup on valves?.....I ask because the posts mentioning how hard carbon is make me wonder.

Sure, but adjust your expectations..if you're trying to slow down the build up, then regular use can be of some benefit much in the same way a cleaner can help to keep injector tips clean....But if you already have or are worried you have, a significant amount of build up that's effecting performance, then taking it in for a professional cleaning is probably the best, most cost effective route as carbon deposits can be quite tenacious and take some time to break apart.


Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 03/24/20 11:20 AM.
Re: Valvoline Modern Engine Preventing D.I. Carbon? [Re: EngineeringGeek] #5384768 03/24/20 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
For years here we have been debating expensive oils against inexpensive oils. Now we are beginning t see why the $29-$35 oil is really better for the GDI / TGDI vehicle lifetime owner, than purchasing the $14-20 oil.

But if I were a leaser, or one that sells the vehicle at 100K, I'd buy the cheaper brands too.


good point or question ... That's why in another thread I posted:

Originally Posted by OilUzer
Is this new theory or additive/detergent that Valvoline has which can "wash/clean" ivd, part of any (api, etc.) cert? Are others failing this test? Or is this getting into oil is not oil territory? lol


Was curious because I'm not sure how effective the detergent is. Marketing? idk. That's why I asked if we are getting into "oil is not oil" territory vs. "oil is oil" as long as it meets the spec. grin2

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