Honda CB 1300 best engine oil

For what it's worth, my ZRX 1200 has a known low RPM oil pressure issue. High ambient and engine temperatures running a 10w40, oil pressure falls to where it basically doesn't register at idle on test gauges guys have used. Going to a 20w50 increases low RPM/high temp oil pressure and while being a thicker oil than Kawasaki recommends, I think it is a better oil in that application.

IMO, the 10w60 is going to shear down no matter what brand you get, so you're not going to be running a 60 wt very long with that much of a viscosity spread.
 
Originally Posted by Bonz
For what it's worth, my ZRX 1200 has a known low RPM oil pressure issue. High ambient and engine temperatures running a 10w40, oil pressure falls to where it basically doesn't register at idle on test gauges guys have used. Going to a 20w50 increases low RPM/high temp oil pressure and while being a thicker oil than Kawasaki recommends, I think it is a better oil in that application.

IMO, the 10w60 is going to shear down no matter what brand you get, so you're not going to be running a 60 wt very long with that much of a viscosity spread.


From what I know the viscosimetric stability of an oil depends on the viscosity index.
For example the motul 7100 10w60 has a viscosity index of 181, one of the highest in its category.
 
I think what you're saying is the starting viscosity as a 10w60 is fairly high for this oil relative to other 10w60 oils? If that is the case in terms of what you are saying, it's still uses a lot of viscosity index improver to cover that wide of a spread and those are going to shear down. It may not share down as much relative to other oils, but it's not going to stay a 60 weight oil in my estimation. I could be way wrong though.
 
Hello everyone!
Did any of you try the new Mobil 1 FS X1 5W50 - Mobil 1 FS X2 5W50 which replaced the excellent Mobil 1 Peak Life 5w50 ??
A dear friend of mine manages to get it in bulk for about € 5 a liter as he has a company and takes it for his trucks and vans. Here in Italy the Shell Rotella t6 5w40 is not imported. I think the Mobil 1 5W50 is better in performance than the Shell. Tell me your opinion. With 25 € I buy 5 liters while for 5 liters of Motul 7100 50 € are needed. If in the purchase I also insert the oil of my car, I save a lot of money. From what I read on the net, Mobil 1 shouldn't cause problems for my beloved CB.

I add the datashets of the two oils
https://www.mobil.com/en-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GL-XX-Mobil-1-FS-X2-5W50

http://shop.sclubricants.com/pub/media/pds/shell/Shell-Rotella-T6-5W-40-datasheet.pdf
 
Originally Posted by Bonz
Sure, the M1 should work fine! Keep us posted on how the shift quality holds up.

Thanks Bonz and thank you all for your advice.
As soon as I make the oil change I will post my general impressions.
 
Originally Posted by Taurus77
Hello everyone, checking the connection tolerances between the crankshaft and connecting rod on the workshop manual of the Honda CB 1300 I realized that these are very similar to those of the MV Agusta F4 1000 R with the difference that the oil pump reaches a higher pressure , about 7 Bar while in the CB 1300 about 6 Bar at 5000 rpm and 80 ° C.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Surely the MV reaches 7 bar of pressure at a higher rpm. In your opinion, with these clarifications, are there valid reasons not to use a 10w60 oil?


Those rod and crankshaft journal bearing clearances are basically the same as the Hayabusa and XSR specs I posted earlier. I'm betting about every modern motorcycle basically has the same bearing clearances.

Both manuals for my bikes don't even mention a xW-60 oil spec. Thickest oil they recommend is a 10W-50 or 20W-50. The thinnest viscosity they recommend is 10W-40. IMO, there is no need to run a xW-60 motor oil.

How much oil pressure a certain engine makes has no bearing on what oil viscosity to use. Fact is, if too thick of oil is used, it's possible the oil pump will operate in pressure relief/bypass more often and that will reduce the flow volume of oil to the engine.
 
Originally Posted by Taurus77
Hello everyone!
Did any of you try the new Mobil 1 FS X1 5W50 - Mobil 1 FS X2 5W50 which replaced the excellent Mobil 1 Peak Life 5w50 ?? A dear friend of mine manages to get it in bulk for about € 5 a liter as he has a company and takes it for his trucks and vans. Here in Italy the Shell Rotella t6 5w40 is not imported. I think the Mobil 1 5W50 is better in performance than the Shell. Tell me your opinion. With 25 € I buy 5 liters while for 5 liters of Motul 7100 50 € are needed. If in the purchase I also insert the oil of my car, I save a lot of money. From what I read on the net, Mobil 1 shouldn't cause problems for my beloved CB.

I add the datashets of the two oils
https://www.mobil.com/en-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GL-XX-Mobil-1-FS-X2-5W50

http://shop.sclubricants.com/pub/media/pds/shell/Shell-Rotella-T6-5W-40-datasheet.pdf


I see no JASO MA, MA2 rating on the Mobil 1. Maybe you don't care about that.
21.gif
 
Originally Posted by Taurus77
Originally Posted by Bonz
For what it's worth, my ZRX 1200 has a known low RPM oil pressure issue. High ambient and engine temperatures running a 10w40, oil pressure falls to where it basically doesn't register at idle on test gauges guys have used. Going to a 20w50 increases low RPM/high temp oil pressure and while being a thicker oil than Kawasaki recommends, I think it is a better oil in that application.

IMO, the 10w60 is going to shear down no matter what brand you get, so you're not going to be running a 60 wt very long with that much of a viscosity spread.

From what I know the viscosimetric stability of an oil depends on the viscosity index.
For example the motul 7100 10w60 has a viscosity index of 181, one of the highest in its category.

I think what Bonz is saying is oils that have a larger cold to hot viscosity spread (ie, 10W-60 vs 10W-40) will have more tendency to shear down with use. In order to obtain that larger viscosity spread, there is more viscosity index improvers (VII), which is the components in oil that becomes sheared down.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Taurus77
Hello everyone, checking the connection tolerances between the crankshaft and connecting rod on the workshop manual of the Honda CB 1300 I realized that these are very similar to those of the MV Agusta F4 1000 R with the difference that the oil pump reaches a higher pressure , about 7 Bar while in the CB 1300 about 6 Bar at 5000 rpm and 80 ° C.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Surely the MV reaches 7 bar of pressure at a higher rpm. In your opinion, with these clarifications, are there valid reasons not to use a 10w60 oil?


Those rod and crankshaft journal bearing clearances are basically the same as the Hayabusa and XSR specs I posted earlier. I'm betting about every modern motorcycle basically has the same bearing clearances.

Both manuals for my bikes don't even mention a xW-60 oil spec. Thickest oil they recommend is a 10W-50 or 20W-50. The thinnest viscosity they recommend is 10W-40. IMO, there is no need to run a xW-60 motor oil.

How much oil pressure a certain engine makes has no bearing on what oil viscosity to use. Fact is, if too thick of oil is used, it's possible the oil pump will operate in pressure relief/bypass more often and that will reduce the flow volume of oil to the engine.


THIS. I'm so glad you brought this up!
I like banking on the benefits of thick oil, but the engine as a system has it's limits. This is one of the biggest, and it becomes riskier as you talk about engines that have higher and higher peak RPM.
 
[/quote] THIS. I'm so glad you brought this up!
I like banking on the benefits of thick oil, but the engine as a system has it's limits. This is one of the biggest, and it becomes riskier as you talk about engines that have higher and higher peak RPM. [/quote]
This engine does not have a high rpm. The maximum power is around 115hp at 7600rpm while the maximum torque is 11.9kgm at 6000rpm
 
Originally Posted by Taurus77

Quote
THIS. I'm so glad you brought this up!
I like banking on the benefits of thick oil, but the engine as a system has it's limits. This is one of the biggest, and it becomes riskier as you talk about engines that have higher and higher peak RPM.

This engine does not have a high rpm. The maximum power is around 115hp at 7600rpm while the maximum torque is 11.9kgm at 6000rpm


Keep in mind that the engineers might have set the pump pressure relief valve lower on a bike that has a lower redline. If the thickest oil they recommend is xW-30, then using a xW-50 or xW-60 may still cause the pump to hit pressure relief more often on that bike.

If the thickest oil the manual recommends is xW-30, then I certainly wouldn't use xW-60. I'd use xW-40, and maybe xW-50 but not rev it real high until the oil it fully hot.
 
[/quote] Keep in mind that the engineers might have set the pump pressure relief valve lower on a bike that has a lower redline. If the thickest oil they recommend is xW-30, then using a xW-50 or xW-60 may still cause the pump to hit pressure relief more often on that bike.

If the thickest oil the manual recommends is xW-30, then I certainly wouldn't use xW-60. I'd use xW-40, and maybe xW-50 but not rev it real high until the oil it fully hot.
[/quote]
It is true you are absolutely right. The right compromise for this engine is a 10w50 oil but no more. The return valve of the oil circuit in situations of full load and high temperatures could open more than necessary and not allow correct lubrication.
 
Honda doesn't make an engine that would be so sensitive it would bust a vein at start up running a 10w60. It is a 10 weight at startup, it would not be a problem revving and having too much oil pressure at startup. Think about it... The things that show up on this forum, that I've never actually heard of happening in the history of modern internal combustion.
smile.gif


There's no need for a 10w60 but the concern and stress being tossed about is good entertainment with time at home during the current world situation.
 
Originally Posted by Bonz
Honda doesn't make an engine that would be so sensitive it would bust a vein at start up running a 10w60. It is a 10 weight at startup, it would not be a problem revving and having too much oil pressure at startup. Think about it... The things that show up on this forum, that I've never actually heard of happening in the history of modern internal combustion.
smile.gif


There's no need for a 10w60 but the concern and stress being tossed about is good entertainment with time at home during the current world situation.


Sure it's not going to "bust a vein", but much thicker oil at cold startup can certainly make the oil pump stay in pressure relief much longer, especially if the engine is revved high before the oil if warmed up. Same thing goes for any engine that uses a positive displacement oil pump with a pressure relief valve to limit the oil pressure.

The oil pressure will be there, but the oil volume going through the engine will get cut back when the pump operates in pressure relief when revved high before the oil thins down. Obviously, the hot oil pressure will be higher with a 10W-60 than with a 10W-30, so it still might be possible for the oil pump to hit pressure relief depending on the oiling system flow resistance and the pump pressure relief setting. That was the point of mentioning it. It's always a good idea to take it easy on any engine until the oil warms up, and not go wild with running very high oil viscosity many levels above the maximum recommended viscosity.
 
We may be splitting hairs here, but if the engine manual calls for 10w-30, why not just use that, or at the most 10w-40?

Another thing, most of us don't do much riding below 45 degrees, more likely 60+ or better.
 
Originally Posted by Taurus77


This engine does not have a high rpm. The maximum power is around 115hp at 7600rpm while the maximum torque is 11.9kgm at 6000rpm


Maximum power is 115 with the recommended 30 grade... running a 60 grade will cost you 4 to 6 ponies in unnecessary oil drag with 0.0 gain in engine longevity...

[Linked Image]
 
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