Recent Topics
faulty bosch right angle drill
by benjy - 05/26/20 04:14 PM
2017 Accord Hybrid Brake Fluid Flush
by Tundragod - 05/26/20 04:12 PM
Lifelong mystery: ticking sound from hard-run V8
by IMSA_Racing_Fan - 05/26/20 04:08 PM
06 GMC Hybrid
by hardheaded - 05/26/20 03:57 PM
98 Camry busted oil drain plug
by JeffKeryk - 05/26/20 03:31 PM
Picked up a used Honda Push Mower today
by redhat - 05/26/20 02:43 PM
Mevotech vs. MOOG
by pbm - 05/26/20 01:47 PM
Any experience with MU-MIX ?
by henni - 05/26/20 01:22 PM
RA code
by Koncrete_Cam - 05/26/20 12:12 PM
best alternative to a group 79? hopefully more cca
by apollo18 - 05/26/20 11:25 AM
Gas Prices Are Going Up
by BlueOvalFitter - 05/26/20 10:49 AM
One way to "fix" a loud vehicle exhaust
by ZZman - 05/26/20 10:01 AM
Limited slip rear end in Tacoma
by taintedtattoo - 05/26/20 09:45 AM
Best Ball Joint and Pitman Arm Grease?
by 2015_PSD - 05/26/20 09:31 AM
12 volt air compressor
by John_Conrad - 05/26/20 08:42 AM
Battery Charging Compatibility
by cb450sc - 05/26/20 07:11 AM
Techron With GDI Engines Intake Vale Cleaning ?
by ChrisD46 - 05/26/20 06:58 AM
Current produced by 3 AA batteries
by MoneyJohn - 05/26/20 06:21 AM
Newest Members
MechEnDawg, jimbacot, MowerVet, RonWSmith3, LJB
71535 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
100 registered members (1978elcamino, AlienBug, ArrestMeRedZ, Atrocious, 2015_PSD, 10WSmuckers, 9 invisible), 2,811 guests, and 19 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics305,909
Posts5,282,567
Members71,535
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: HyundaiAbuser] #5376212 03/14/20 11:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,417
T
Traction Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,417
Some new cars use the cars computer to REV match the engine and transmission during gear changes which is what double clutching does. Same thing when rolling up to stop. In any gear when the tachometer is at idle speed you can easily slip into neutral without pushing in the clutch. I do it all of the time in 4 of my vehicles when I know I will be sitting at a light with no one coming up behind me of course. The real trick to driving any manual transmission is learning how to shift it smoother than an automatic transmission can, and other than the sound no one in the car should even feel it. I can always tell if I don't make a seamless smooth move shifting or braking, because you see the passenger turn into a bobble head. Not many people know how to drive smoothly, and you should learn to fly it like an airplane.


Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
02 Camry
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4
Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: HyundaiAbuser] #5376217 03/14/20 11:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 241
H
HyundaiAbuser Offline OP
OP Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 241
All very interesting, the second gear synchros in my tiburon are starting to show a little wear and i was looking for the ways to take some of the workload off of them when i came across this. I'll do a bit more research on the heel toe method too.


03 Hyundai Tiburon:
PP High Mileage 5w30
Amsoil MTG
94 Mazda B4000
Supertech 10w40 High Mileage
Valvoline Dex/Merc
Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: Olas] #5376223 03/14/20 11:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 275
Drosselmier Offline
Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 275


^
Very good explanation from Piston Heads. Not long winded at all.

Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: Traction] #5376262 03/14/20 12:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,632
H
hallstevenson Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,632
Originally Posted by Olas
When you say 'floating the gears' do you mean clutchless gearchange? If you do, then;

If the engine speed is matched to the road speed then the gear will go in with no grinding and no wear. if the engine speed does NOT match the road speed then it will grind and suffer acclelerated wear. clutchless changing is a bit of an art form, once you know what RPMs you need for that roadspeed you only need to use the clutch to pull away from being stopped. just have to match the speeds.
Originally Posted by Traction
If you match engine speed, and transmission speeds carefully, you can actually shift up, or down without even pushing in the clutch. I've driven a couple cars home with after the clutch linkage had fallen off.

I think it was Olas that said it above, you use your fingers on the gear selector, not grab it firmly and slam it between gears. I've had to drive a car with no clutch (well, the slave cylinder had failed) and have also shifted gears without the clutch just to show someone it's possible. Once rolling/accelerating, gently move the selector from a gear to neutral, then lightly feather it into the 'gate' for the gear you want. Do it so lightly that you can feel when it will slip in nicely. No racing-style, heel-and-toe or throttle blipping is really needed with practice.

Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: Traction] #5376281 03/14/20 01:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 573
C
Cdn17Sport6MT Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by Traction
Some new cars use the cars computer to REV match the engine and transmission during gear changes which is what double clutching does.


Same thing double-clutching does in terms of rev (matching); not the same (beneficial) thing that double-clutching does in terms of saving synchro wear. Reving while in neutral is the only thing that does that. And I note that dual-clutch automated manuals do NOT rev match while in neutral. So for folks who love the sound and feel of the car while rev-matching at high road-speeds, whether you have a conventional manual transmission or a DCT/PDK/or VW variant (name escapes me) - if you wantonly downshift - you WILL knacker your synchro's prematurely. The amount of force at the gearstick, required to downshift, versus on an easy upshift by comparison, tells the tale of synchro duress and wear...

It's not so much WILL it go into gear, but rather, how much you have to FORCE it to go into gear. Double-clutch accurately and the force is next to ZIPPO.

Last edited by Cdn17Sport6MT; 03/14/20 01:32 PM.

Mazda6 GX (i.e.Sport), 6MT, '17
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (Euro version), '85
Honda Civic Si (EX 2 dr in the 'States), A/T, '97
Toyota Camry CE, 5MT, '99
Toyota Corolla VE, 4AT, '99
VW (Type2) Kombi, 4MT, '79
Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: HyundaiAbuser] #5376287 03/14/20 01:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,629
E
ecotourist Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,629
We used to do a lot of double-declutching in very cold weather. (There is no cold weather where we live now).

My wife would get into the habit and continue well into the summer. It's not hard when you get the hang of it.


2000 BMW 528i 5MT M Sport
2007 Honda Accord EX-L 4Door V6 6MT
Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: hallstevenson] #5376289 03/14/20 01:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,629
E
ecotourist Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,629
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
I think it was Olas that said it above, you use your fingers on the gear selector, not grab it firmly and slam it between gears. .....Do it so lightly that you can feel when it will slip in nicely. No racing-style, heel-and-toe or throttle blipping is really needed with practice.

I've heard it described as "wishing it into the next gear". I do it all the time - two fingers on the gear lever. I know how to shift fast, I just don't do it.


2000 BMW 528i 5MT M Sport
2007 Honda Accord EX-L 4Door V6 6MT
Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: HyundaiAbuser] #5376325 03/14/20 04:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 35,608
E
eljefino Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 35,608
I double- clutch going down into 2nd whether the car needs it or not. If I don't need to, I still save wear on the synchros.

Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: eljefino] #5376332 03/14/20 04:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 573
C
Cdn17Sport6MT Offline
Offline
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 573
Originally Posted by eljefino
I double- clutch going down into 2nd whether the car needs it or not. If I don't need to, I still save wear on the synchros.

++1


Mazda6 GX (i.e.Sport), 6MT, '17
Moto Guzzi 850 T5 (Euro version), '85
Honda Civic Si (EX 2 dr in the 'States), A/T, '97
Toyota Camry CE, 5MT, '99
Toyota Corolla VE, 4AT, '99
VW (Type2) Kombi, 4MT, '79
Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: HyundaiAbuser] #5380032 03/19/20 05:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,612
G
Gasbuggy Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,612
First off, double-clutching is not for synchronized transmissions that work properly. A reference to double clutching was stupidly put into the first Fast & Furious movie, but those writers didn't seem to know Richard about cars.

It's for old non-synchronized gearboxes. Often you will find it's only first gear. I just bought a 51 Ford and you only double-clutch first.


Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: HyundaiAbuser] #5380062 03/19/20 07:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 509
B
brages Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 509
I had read about double-clutching and didn't really get the point until I let the gear oil get low on a leaky 1986 Jetta. I guess it cooked the synchros, because after that you had to double clutch downshifts into third. I developed the habit, might still do it. Upshifts were just a matter of being sensitive with the gear shift.

Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: Traction] #5380522 03/19/20 03:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,612
G
Gasbuggy Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,612
Rev Match is a cool technology, so is GM's no lift shift. My last three tremec equipped cars I could drive without using the clutch, upshift, downshift. It's not hard if you know the feel and aren't afraid to boss the shifter around.

Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: HyundaiAbuser] #5380555 03/19/20 04:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 136
D
Dadillac Online Content
Online Content
D
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 136
Every time I read about people double clutching any trans that has synchros I just shake my head.

Don

Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: Dadillac] #5380579 03/19/20 05:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,861
M
MCompact Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,861
Originally Posted by Dadillac
Every time I read about people double clutching any trans that has synchros I just shake my head.

Don


Especially on the track... smirk2


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Double clutch shifting, what does it entail? [Re: MCompact] #5380660 03/19/20 07:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,814
A
A_Harman Offline
Offline
A
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,814
Originally Posted by MCompact
One of my first HPDE instructors told me to practice heel-toe on the street so that it would become second nature on the track. I still do it 100% of the time in my Club Sport- and even in the Wrangler.


I instruct all of my HPDE students in rev-match downshifting. It is fundamental to road course driving technique.
I feel sorry for people with flappy paddle gearboxes...
I learned rev-match downshifting out of the Bob Bondurant book in 1985, and have used it ever since. I used to do double-clutch downshifting, but stopped because it is wasted motion on modern gearboxes. Single-clutch rev-match downshifts are what I do in all my vehicles. It blows peoples minds when they ride with me in my diesel pickups.


2008 Dodge Ram 3500 diesel/G56
1985 Z51 Corvette track car 355/6-speed
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel/NV4500+GV
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck 307/SM465
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™